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[HallelujahAl]

Hi - does anyone have one of these - Weltmeister 509 BCC# - and if so, what do you think of it? I'm half interested in this - been looking at it for a while - but would like to know what other folks experiences are/have been.
Thanks, AL.

http://www.accordions.co.uk/Buttonviewdocs.htm/Welt509s.htm

[Martin J]

Can't help on the model but my Weltmiester 512 in C/F is excellent and Emelio Allodi is always very helpful.  You don't give your own location but he is in South London and he would be pleased if you went there and played the box.

[george garside]

Hi - does anyone have one of these - Weltmeister 509 BCC# - and if so, what do you think of it? I'm half interested in this - been looking at it for a while - but would like to know what other folks experiences are/have been.
Thanks, AL.

http://www.accordions.co.uk/Buttonviewdocs.htm/Welt509s.htm

unfortunately it looks as if it has 12 'melodeon' (differnt note on push & pull) bass.  Most BCC# boxes have 12 or more stradella bass (same note push & pull) .  With melodeon bass you either don't use them like many BC players don't or you  have to gear your right hand playing around getting the bellows in the right direction for each required  bass note.  This defeats the  normal BCC# practice of  choosing treble direction  in order to limit bellows movement and to ease what would be tricky bits of fingering on a 2 row box.  It can also limit the  free choice of right hand chords if your right hand action is governed by the directional requirements of the bass end.

With 12 dtradella as per hohner trichord it would probably be a nice box.  With 48 stradella  it would be even better but I dont suppose allodi would offer to do a transplant!

george

[george garside]

I have been in touch with emilio allodi  re fitting stradella bass & he in turn has been in touch with weiltmaster who apparently think they could do it easily in 60 bass form which would be even better than 12x4  48 bass as it would include 7th chords.  He will come back to me as soon as he has more info from weiltmaster including price and I will post it here. If the price is tight it could be a nice way into BCC#.

george

[Martin J]

Emilio did broker changes for me on my box and Weiltmeister were not only very obliging but very quick as well.  Look forward the response.

[EeeJay]

I have been in touch with emilio allodi  re fitting stradella bass & he in turn has been in touch with weiltmaster who apparently think they could do it easily in 60 bass form which would be even better than 12x4  48 bass as it would include 7th chords.  He will come back to me as soon as he has more info from weiltmaster including price and I will post it here. If the price is tight it could be a nice way into BCC#.

george

I thought about that too a while back - they make a mini French style chromatic box, which shares the same bellows dimensions of their 3 voice 3 row diatonic - 182mm by 332mm.

Nail the two together... Treble range is three buttons less than the currently available Clinkscale-Delicia/Crucianelli, but the 3 voice option should provide a fair bit more welly when it's needed. As for finish/decor, a variation on something like this is fairly restrained/pleasantly 'retro'...

Ed J

[HallelujahAl]

I have been in touch with emilio allodi  re fitting stradella bass & he in turn has been in touch with weiltmaster who apparently think they could do it easily in 60 bass form which would be even better than 12x4  48 bass as it would include 7th chords.  He will come back to me as soon as he has more info from weiltmaster including price and I will post it here. If the price is tight it could be a nice way into BCC#.

george

Thanks George - I think I'd be very interested in that. I'm used to playing 120 bass PA so find the 48bass a bit on the 'wee' side - missing the dominant 7ths I think. Or are they Diminished?
AL

[EeeJay]

I'm used to playing 120 bass PA so find the 48bass a bit on the 'wee' side - missing the dominant 7ths I think. Or are they Diminished?

Depends.

On the 80 bass rig I have, the 5th row is what they call "French 7ths"... this is where the dominant row is not there, but is actually replaced by the diminished row, but shunted down a peg. It provides a different inversion of the chord.

Thus the 7ths sound different and rather... well... FRENCH , as it happens...

The reason the French tend to do this is so when there are 6 rows of bass, the extra bass row is used to accommodate an extra row of counterbass... which includes a minor third within easy reach of the tonic. You'd typically find this bass system on many of their chromatic button boxes, but rarely, if at all, on a piano box.

This is why you see 3x3 or 2x4 on some accordion makers/French dealers sites - differentiates between the two by signifying the setup of bass rows.

But that's discounting the Belgians... who take the 3x3 system, square it off, turn it upside down and inside out... don't ask me why, it's just another of those quare national obsessions with inventing another b****y squeezebox... I reckon they should stick to designing eccentric beer glasses, and perfecting the contents thereof...

Ed J

[ghijze mitter hacken]

What you call a a bass system typical for the Belgians is the Italian Marchigiano bass system (since 1920) Only use in Belgium nowadays.

[HallelujahAl]

What you call a a bass system typical for the Belgians is the Italian Marchigiano bass system (since 1920) Only use in Belgium nowadays.

...wonder why that is? 
AL

[ghijze mitter hacken]

I wish I would know!