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Author Topic: Any bands or Ceildh groups seeking a boxplayer?  (Read 3131 times)

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EastAnglianTed

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Any bands or Ceildh groups seeking a boxplayer?
« on: July 15, 2014, 08:49:55 PM »

    Anyone know of anything? I'm free, bit of a rubbish advert I know... :P
    Or does anyone know of effective websites or anything regarding finding bands?  >:E
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: Any bands or Ceildh groups seeking a boxplayer?
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2014, 01:34:49 AM »

You could always try starting your own band...
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JJRobson

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Re: Any bands or Ceildh groups seeking a boxplayer?
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2014, 09:57:12 AM »

Facebook could be a good shout here. There is a dedicated folk musicians group for every county which you might find willing participants on. Also there are plenty of general groups for jobbing musicians looking for gigs who might be interested in a ceilidh band
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Theo

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Re: Any bands or Ceildh groups seeking a boxplayer?
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2014, 11:11:52 AM »

Best source of contacts for an East Anglian player would be Katie Howson at the East Anglian Traditional Music Trust
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Re: Any bands or Ceildh groups seeking a boxplayer?
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2014, 01:10:14 PM »

The facebook "trad" groups were set up en bloc a couple of years back and some get very little traffic. Last time (year) I looked at my own (Cheshire, they use 1900(!) county boundaries ::)) it had only ads for a couple of gigs somewhere south of London. Of course others may be teeming with life …

Yes, surely EATMT for any East Anglian!
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Andrew Wigglesworth

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Re: Any bands or Ceildh groups seeking a boxplayer?
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2014, 05:22:13 PM »

I sympathise, it can be a little frustrating.

The "form a band" or "seeking musicians" websites are pretty much a dead loss. We've just got to resign ourselves to the fact that we are a tiny minority of a minority. Those kind of websites cater to the rock/pop/covers band areas and folk or trad stuff virtually never gets a look in. I say "virtually" since I once saw an "Irish" pub band looking for a piano accordionist on one. But, they were pretty much on a hiding to nothing.

I think that the only real way (unless you're lucky on a forum like this) is to meet other local musicians. Go to your local sessions (or even try to start one if there are none), do floor spots at local folk clubs, go and see Morris teams on their dance outs, visit your local dances and ceilidhs. At them, talk to people and mention your interest. Approach people that you hear and you think might be interested ... yes, I know it's all obvious, and I seem to be assuming that you don't do any of this, but please forgive me, like I said, I think it's the only real way.

Folk music is a social music above all things. You could have a full musical life in folk music without ever joining a band or stepping upon a stage. I think this is one big reason that folkies don't find themselves on these "get new band members" type websites, another is that there is no such thing as a standard ceilidh band. If you're doing rock music you pretty much need a "band" and you are generally looking for a standard lineup. A rhythm guitarist, a lead guitar, a bass guitar and a drummer. One or more will sing and you're basically set up unless you go for something exotic like a keyboard player or summat. Everyone plays in common time and basically has a common acquaintance with the popular repertoire.

Folk bands are much more ad hoc, players can be more eclectic in their tune and style choices, instruments are from a wider range of ones that people happen to be playing already. You need to meet people, hear them, play with them a bit in social settings to get a "handle" on them so to speak. It's hardly surprising that so many bands come out of Morris teams, sessions or clubs.

I know I'm waffling on a bit here, but I think it's interesting how the folk scene differs from others in the way bands and the like are set up.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 05:27:25 PM by Andrew Wigglesworth »
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Ollie

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Re: Any bands or Ceildh groups seeking a boxplayer?
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2014, 11:49:19 PM »

Get to major festivals (Warwick, Sidmouth, Shrewsbury/Towersey, Bromyard) and get in the sessions and meet people; it's all about networking. I struggled to find people in my locale when I lived in Cambridge (this changed somewhat when I moved to Sheffield, of course), but started to meet people when I started going to festivals, namely Sidmouth really.
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Rob2Hook

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Re: Any bands or Ceildh groups seeking a boxplayer?
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2014, 01:36:19 AM »

OUr ceilidh band's keyboard player recently moved to Hickling and is complaining that most of the folk scene seems to be south of Norfolk.  She's trying to get a session arranged nearer home (lives 200 yards from the pub).  I'll post details if she succeeds!  Actually I'll try to go visit if it comes off.

Rob.
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Anahata

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Re: Any bands or Ceildh groups seeking a boxplayer?
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2014, 08:24:43 AM »

Steve's suggestion was also my first thought.
Get a copy of Mardles (August issue just out), go round the sessions (there are many listed) and see what players you can find.
The magazine also carries a list of local bands, so you could try contacting them. At least they might let you "sit in" on a gig or two.
(By the way, Hadstock King's Head, Sunday - chance to catch up?)

OUr ceilidh band's keyboard player recently moved to Hickling and is complaining that most of the folk scene seems to be south of Norfolk.  She's trying to get a session arranged nearer home (lives 200 yards from the pub).  I'll post details if she succeeds!  Actually I'll try to go visit if it comes off.
If it does, let me know and I can list it in the next issue of Mardles. Maybe a PM to Melnet's own "Broadland Boy" will get you/her some useful information. Or again, a copy of Mardles. I'm forever struggling to make it less Suffolk-centric.
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Chris Brimley

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Re: Any bands or Ceildh groups seeking a boxplayer?
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2014, 09:35:58 AM »

I agree with Steve and Anahata's thoughts - try starting your own band.  That way you get to plan the sound you want to create.

The big lesson here is to aim high.  It doesn't matter how amazingly talented you think a musician is, if you say to them, 'I'm forming a band, and would really like you to join it', hardly anyone can ever refuse!  In fact you have to be careful what you wish for - talent is by no means the only important criterion in a musician.  And do it incrementally - go for what you need most first (that's probably a keyboard or a rhythm guitarist or something to give the beat), and add other musicians later.  Try to avoid making rash promises to friends.  Callers are quite used to doing it in front of different bands, so recruiting a full-time caller isn't as essential initially as you might think, though you may be lucky and know someone who would fit the bill already.

In terms of aiming high, I remember asking a pianist to join us in a band once who was clearly a classical musical goddess, and whom I hardly knew.  My wife and daughter both said to me that I was being highly embarrassing by even approaching her, but I still thought it worth a try.  Her reply? 'Of course - I'd love to!'  (Lesson: - people actually like being organised into groups, as long as they believe it's for a good reason.  They may turn you down for whatever reason, but they'll still be dead chuffed that you've asked, so it's a win-win situation.)

You will somehow have to organise a PA system - either get it yourself, or recruit someone who already has the gear.  But since you won't be able to play without it, relying on somebody else to provide it means they need to be trusty, and not too busy.  Some bands share PA, but there are snags with sharing costs when people leave or join or equipment needs repair or replacement.

Also think of this from other musicians' point of view.  In forming a band yourself, box players have a big advantage - they pretty much have the bases covered already:  melody, rhythm, and a basic accompaniment.  That's probably why so many dance bands have boxes as front musicians.  Whereas if you play drums, keyboard, guitar or bass, or even violin, it's more difficult to approach other musicians and convincingly get them to join you in dance band.  If say a drummer approached you and said they were thinking of forming a dance band, one might be initially a little sceptical, I suggest.

Go for it!
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Graham Spencer

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Re: Any bands or Ceildh groups seeking a boxplayer?
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2014, 11:55:43 AM »

talent is by no means the only important criterion in a musician. 

Ain't that the truth!  I've worked in bands with brilliant musicians who were absolutely hopeless as members of an ensemble, and with competent players who were a real asset and understood the dynamics of working in a band.  Just occasionally the two qualities coincide, but it's relatively rare.  I also agree with all the other advice posted above, by the way.

Graham
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Anahata

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Re: Any bands or Ceildh groups seeking a boxplayer?
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2014, 01:13:05 PM »

Some bands share PA, but there are snags with sharing costs when people leave or join or equipment needs repair or replacement.

Mary and I have a PA system, and we use it for three bands, all of which include both of us. The snag is that you are saddled with the extra work of packing it for a gig and unpacking it when you get home afterwards (unless you can keep it in a trailer or van - but that has its own problems). I recently got a small PA hire gig too, which necessitated buying (and just about paid for) a couple of extra bits of kit which will be handy if it happens again. A PA of your own is a useful thing to have.

We did start off with partially borrowed PA for Fendragon (it actually belonged to the Cambridge Round) but it certainly wasn't an optimal arrangement.

As for looking for other musicians - I mentioned sessions, but actually dance teams may be a good place to look too. Morris musicians are at least used to playing for dance.
Small ad in Mardles? (only £2!)

Good luck with it!
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Chris Brimley

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Re: Any bands or Ceildh groups seeking a boxplayer?
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2014, 05:08:38 PM »

I've always found that the main cost of doing your own PA is that it means you need to have a large bandwagon to carry it all around in, and that obviously means higher fuel costs for all your journeys, not just band ones.  However I've been recently delighted to find that the latest generation of diesel cars (Peugeot 5008 instead of Renault Espace) has far better fuel economy, and this is making a huge difference to my expenses.  (I'm talking 55mpg as opposed to 34mpg.)
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t-tone

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Re: Any bands or Ceildh groups seeking a boxplayer?
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2014, 06:49:57 PM »

Brings to mind that definition of a musician, along the lines of - someone who loads £5000 of equipment into a £500 van to drive to a £50 gig.
Tony
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Graham Spencer

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Re: Any bands or Ceildh groups seeking a boxplayer?
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2014, 07:09:02 PM »

Brings to mind that definition of a musician, along the lines of - someone who loads £5000 of equipment into a £500 van to drive to a £50 gig.
Tony

Love it!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Chris Brimley

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Re: Any bands or Ceildh groups seeking a boxplayer?
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2014, 07:58:34 PM »

Quite right! LOL.

( - you know of someone with a 5008 for sale at £500, huh?  Sold!)
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Anahata

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Re: Any bands or Ceildh groups seeking a boxplayer?
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2014, 08:03:50 PM »

However I've been recently delighted to find that the latest generation of diesel cars (Peugeot 5008 instead of Renault Espace) has far better fuel economy, and this is making a huge difference to my expenses.  (I'm talking 55mpg as opposed to 34mpg.)

Same here.
10 years ago: petrol Passat: 35mpg
Now: Diesel VW Touran, 50mpg and more carrying space.
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Re: Any bands or Ceildh groups seeking a boxplayer?
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2014, 11:09:56 PM »

Brings to mind that definition of a musician, along the lines of - someone who loads £5000 of equipment into a £500 van to drive to a £50 gig.
Tony

You neglected to mention the 5 hours drive... (:)
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Chris Brimley

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Re: Any bands or Ceildh groups seeking a boxplayer?
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2014, 09:47:43 AM »

....and in the case of a sound engineer, the 5 hours extra work loading and unloading the gear twice, before and after the gig!

And the £50 plus to get it PAT-tested every year. 

And the damaged and lost equipment replacement costs.

And the partner who wants the dining room back.

But hey, don't we just love the challenges!
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Re: Any bands or Ceildh groups seeking a boxplayer?
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2014, 01:55:42 PM »

I think it's worth remembering that depending on what 'end' of the folk gigging scene you inhabit, you may find that your PA requirements are relatively modest. My parents (who play ceilidhs as a bass guitar/piano accordion duo) play more intimate gigs very often using a Peavey Escort system - the speakers clip onto a big case that contains a little mixer with seven or eight mike inputs and a basic reverb unit - plenty for a typical duo or trio plus a caller. Add a couple of stage mics, stands and cables, you could have a useable system for about the cost of a Saltarelle Irish Bouebe, and it'll just about fit into a small saloon car. You won't be rocking a festival stage with that system, but for your typical folk club or school hall ceilidh you'll definitely be heard. Of course, PA-Acquisition-Disease is just as bad as MAD, you'll soon want foldback wedges, specialised clip-on squeezebox mics, wireless transmitters, bigger active speakers, you name it. Then the politics of band PA can get... interesting, as a recent thread on whether occasional deps should provide their own microphones demonstrates!

 
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