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[Helena Handcart]

Hello fellow melnutters,

I'm trying to track down some ABC for this tune A Hornpipe for Mr Moore. A search of the usual resources (abcnotation.com etc.) has drawn a blank but there are several You Tube recordings of it and it is evidently a very old tune.

Any assistance much appreciated folks 

[Lester]

I used a thing you may not have heard of, it's called Google   

X:84
T:Mr Moore's Hornpipe
T:Lorenz's Butterfly - Boggart's Breakfast
M:4/4
L:1/8
K:Emin
F2 G2 e2 G2 |FE DE FD B2 |F2 G2 e2 G2 |FE DE F2 z2 |
F2 G2 e2 G2 |FE DE FD B2 |F2 GA BG FG |AF D2 E2 z2 |
ed e2 ge c2 |e2 de fd B2 |f2 e2 ge c2 |e2 de f2 z2 |
f2 e2 ge c2 |e2 de fd B2- |B2 A2 cA F2 |AF D2 E2 z2 |]

[Helena Handcart]

Thanks Lester, I found the sheet music for the Boggart's version but no abc.

Now I shall have to drag myself from my comfy chair and post-festival haze and give it a go....

[Steve_freereeder]

I'm not sure where Lester's googling took him to, but the resulting ABC is a bit garbled, to say the least (sorry Lester!)

This great tune comes from the late 18th century Thomas Watts manuscript of tunes, from Peak Forest in Derbyshire, held in a private collection. The MS has been extensively researched by ace melodeon and anglo player Brian Peters from Glossop (who sometimes posts on this forum). I was fortunate to be in Brian's house masterclasses held in Sheffield quite a few years ago when he had just unearthed the tune and was kind enough to share it with us.

Here below is the tune as Brian gave it to us straight from the Thomas Watts MS, except he transposed it from Am to Em to be D/G melodeon-friendly and also added some suggested chords. If you don't have a low B available on your instrument, you can either play that note an octave higher (which rather spoils the effect IMHO) or else play the low B on the LH side bass note, which sounds much better.

The Sheffield-based Border Morris side 'Boggarts Breakfast' do indeed use this tune for their dance 'Lorenzo's Butterfly' and they play it pretty much as given here. The tune sounds especially good at the slow, almost stately, tempo typically needed for Border Morris.


X:1
T:A Hornpipe by Mr Moore
T:From the Thomas Watts manuscript (late 18th cent.), Derbyshire Peak Forest.
M:4/4
L:1/8
K:Emin
P:A
BA | "Em" G2 e2 G2 FE | "D" DEFD "Bm" B,2 A2 | "Em" G2 e2 G2 FE | "D" D2 F4 A2 |
"Em" G2 e2 G2 FE | "D" DEFD "Bm" B,2 A2 | "Em" GABG "Bm" FGAF | B,2 "Em" E4 :|
P:B
ed | "Em" e2 ge "C" c2 e2 | "D" defd "Bm" B2 AG | "Em" e2 ge "C" c2 e2 | "D" d2 f4 ed |
"Em" e2 ge "C" c2 e2 | "D" defd "Bm" B2 AG | "Am" A2 cA "Bm" F2 "Em" GE | "Bm" B,2 "Em"E4 :|
W:
W:Researched from the Thomas Watts manuscript (private collection, Peak Forest, Derbyshire)
W:by Brian Peters, Glossop, Derbyshire.
W:Original key: A minor; suggested chords added by Brian Peters.

PDF attached for those that don't do ABC.

[Jack Campin]

I'd bet that started out in G minor as a fiddle tune.  There are lots of places where you can let the D string ring to good effect.

[Helena Handcart]

...Here below is the tune as Brian gave it to us straight from the Thomas Watts MS...

Thanks for posting this Steve. The bag of our border side found the tune online while looking for prospective tunes to work with for the practice season.  I'm pleased she found a tune that's not already used by a hundred other border sides at least :)

I'm off out with the other mob tonight (Cotswold) but will give this a go if I get a spare hour this evening.

Thanks

Helena

[Steve_freereeder]

...Here below is the tune as Brian gave it to us straight from the Thomas Watts MS...

Thanks for posting this Steve.

You're welcome. Hope you enjoy learning and playing the tune. It's a good'n!

[Steve_freereeder]

I'd bet that started out in G minor as a fiddle tune.  There are lots of places where you can let the D string ring to good effect.

I wonder...
I can see what you mean - it would be good in G minor on the fiddle. Next time I see Brian, I'll try to remember to ask him what the original key is in the Thomas Watts MS. But there's nothing stopping anyone from playing it in Gm anyway. I think it is a lovely mellow key - not particularly D/G melodeon-friendly, but it would work nicely in Gm on a C/F box.

[Tufty]

I'm pleased she found a tune that's not already used by a hundred other border sides at least :)

Don't bet on it, both sides I play for use the tune and came by it independently.

[Jack Campin]

G minor version, chords slightly changed from Brian's and ringing open strings notated explicitly.  I used BarFly for editing this, which is not very common these days, so I tried to attach a MIDI to show what sound I'm aiming at - but this forum won't let me.  WTF?

Code: [Select]

X:3
T:A Hornpipe by Mr Moore
N:From the Thomas Watts manuscript (late 18th cent.), Derbyshire Peak Forest.
M:4/4
L:1/8
V:1 midi program 1 16
V:2 midi program 1 11 merge
K:GMin
[V:1] dc|"Gm"B2g2     B2AG|"Dm"FGAF D2c2|"Gm"B2g2     B2    AG |"Dm"F2     A4
[V:2] x2|    D8           |    x8       |    D8                |    x2     D4
%
[V:1] c2|"Gm"B2g2     B2AG|"Dm"FGAF D2c2|"Gm"BcdB "Dm"AB````cA |    D2 "Gm"G4 :|
[V:2] x2|    D8           |    x8       |    D8                |    x2     G,4:|
%
[V:1] gf|"Gm"g2bg "Cm"e2g2|"Dm"fgaf d2cB|"Gm"g2bg "Cm"e2    g2 |"Dm"f2     a4
[V:2] x2|    D4       G,4 |    D8       |    D4       G,4      |    D6
%
[V:1] gf|"Gm"g2bg "Cm"e2g2|"Dm"fgaf d2cB|"Cm"c2ec "Dm"A2"Gm"BG |"Dm"D2 "Gm"G4 :|
[V:2] x2|    D4       G,4 |    D8       |    G,4      D4       |    x2     G,4:|
W:Researched from the Thomas Watts manuscript (private collection,
W:Peak Forest, Derbyshire) by Brian Peters, Glossop, Derbyshire.

[Steve_freereeder]

G minor version, chords slightly changed from Brian's and ringing open strings notated explicitly.  I used BarFly for editing this, which is not very common these days, so I tried to attach a MIDI to show what sound I'm aiming at - but this forum won't let me.  WTF?

Excellent, Jack!
I use BarFly too. The ABC worked fine and I could generate a MIDI file too.

In order to prevent the transmission of viruses/malware, there are only a limited set of file formats which are 'legally' accepted on the forum and .mid is currently not one of them.

I've added the MIDI file to my Dropbox folder which anyone can access from this link.

[pikey]

NO HELENA, STOP IT !! We don't want any more minor key 'border' dance tunes !!!!

Unless, of course, it's Delilah...... 

[Thrupenny Bit]

Pikey.... Why?
.....why why.... err I think you know the rest 
Q

[Helena Handcart]

Pikey.... Why?
.....why why.... err I think you know the rest 
Q

Ssshhhhhhh! Don't encourage him Q - he doesn't flippin' need it 

[pikey]

 

Break tradition, use The Wrong Trousers for Border !!

[Thrupenny Bit]

I keep meaning to look at the Wallace and Grommit tune - any abc's or dots anyone?

( sorry Helena, will try and curb my encouragements  )
Q

[Steve_freereeder]

Break tradition, use The Wrong Trousers for Border !!

I keep meaning to look at the Wallace and Grommit tune - any abc's or dots anyone?

( sorry Helena, will try and curb my encouragements  )
Q

<Musicians' Union hat on>
Sorry to be a party-pooper, but a word of caution is probably appropriate at this stage. The Wallace and Gromit music was composed by Julian Nott and is very much protected by copyright and subject to PRS fees. Unauthorised use in public performance could land your dance side in some legal wrangling and cost you money.

If you want to use it, I suggest you contact Julian directly and explain how you want to use the music. It's quite possible he would agree to its use, but I really recommend that you check with him first.
<Musicians' Union hat off>
Phew - it's hot under there...

[Thrupenny Bit]

Blimey! Fair comment Steve, and would explain why I can't seem to find the tune on anything other than sheet music which requires a fee.
It is  surprising how an innocent idea - such as using the tune for a dance - could land you the wrong side of things.
Cracking tune though ( as one would say!)
Q

[penn]

so does that mean that if I want to play a cover of a Beatles song I have to get permission from Lennon/McCartney themselves (or representatives)?
I thought it was all covered by the venue being PRS licenced, and filling in the PRS forms for the songs you played?
Steve

[Anahata]

so does that mean that if I want to play a cover of a Beatles song I have to get permission from Lennon/McCartney themselves (or representatives)?
I thought it was all covered by the venue being PRS licenced, and filling in the PRS forms for the songs you played?
Steve

Correct. In theory you don't have to ask permission, you just put the details on the PRS form.

Of course morris teams mostly dance in places not PRS licensed, so they never see any forms.
In a case such as this, it might actually be worth asking for permission, just as a courtesy and so that if anyone asks, you can say that you've got it.  I sure Julian Nott wouldn't mind - he'll have made a tidy pile from all the TV play already anyway.

I believe Hammersmith Morris asked Mats Edén if they could use Serpentiner Och Konfetti for a morris tune. Mats was allegedly bemused and delighted in equal proportions...