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Author Topic: Falling flat on my Face  (Read 3892 times)

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Grape Ape

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Falling flat on my Face
« on: September 22, 2014, 02:29:12 PM »

So, Yesterday, for what was really the first time, I played in front of a larger group. Sure, I have played for small groups of friends and family before, mostly when they and I had some drink in us, and these small "sessions" have always gone well as the audience was small, sympathetic, and well, drunk.  Yesterday was different as there were strangers and coworkers (about 35 people) and not enough libations flowing.

What happened to me???!!!

I became sweaty, red faced, and NERVOUS! I made mistake after mistake on songs I have played 100 times.  Not little mistakes, no, rather the kind that stop you in your tracks and leave you muttering excuses.  I am used to the kind of mistakes I make when trying to record, where I play the song near perfect except for one wrong note and such, but this was more like EVERY note.  It was absolutely terrible!

Please tell me it gets easier?
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summerstars

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Re: Falling flat on my Face
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2014, 03:08:29 PM »

Yes it gets easier;  I remember being "sent home" from the first real session I tried to play at  -  exactly the same thing happened to me - i.e. every tune I thought I could play just fell to pieces.  However it does get better each time you try.

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Mike Carney

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Re: Falling flat on my Face
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2014, 04:04:03 PM »

[quote author=Grape Ape link=topic=15481.msg190224#msg190224 date=1411392
What happened to me???!!!

I became sweaty, red faced, and NERVOUS! I made mistake after mistake on songs I have played 100 times.  Not little mistakes, no, rather the kind that stop you in your tracks and leave you muttering excuses.  I am used to the kind of mistakes I make when trying to record, where I play the song near perfect except for one wrong note and such, but this was more like EVERY note.  It was absolutely terrible!

Please tell me it gets easier?
[/quote]
I can really identify with this. Thinking about my own reactions to playing in front of others I have put it down to overthinking which, due to the complexity of playing the melodeon, then unbalances me. At the best of times I find I have to have a degree of "automatic-ness" in how my hands move, which I know I can achieve.  While doing the four things at the same time, ie right hand melody, left hand bass, bellows direction and air button control, if I then start to think about it too much I begin to fall apart. That's why my list of tunes I can play is long but the tunes I can confidently start on my own in front of others is much shorter.  And I am someone who regularly plays guitar in front of large groups of people without the same problem. Summerstars is right, it does get better.
 :Ph Mike
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Graham Spencer

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Re: Falling flat on my Face
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2014, 07:29:39 PM »

Yes, it gets much easier; but IMHO you never quite lose those slight "butterflies". After (do I really want to think about it?) 50 years of playing in public, in bands of various sorts, on various instruments, and as a soloist in folk clubs and the like, I still get a slight frisson before going on stage, and I really think that slight adrenalin surge gives you a lift when you first face your audience. After all this time, the "flutters" disappear by the end of the first number and I'm able to relax and enjoy the ride.

 Play something you REALLY know inside out, back to front, upside down - and preferably the right way round/up as well! - as your first number and the audience will be on your side. Oh - and wait till you've finished your performance before indulging in a celebratory pint/wee dram/whatever floats your boat. A clear head is your greatest friend........

Graham
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Tufty

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Re: Falling flat on my Face
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2014, 08:27:11 PM »

The nerves never really go away in my experience. I play in folk clubs etc and always feel that bit of pressure. It leads me to play everything too fast and so fall into mistakes. However it does get better and tunes that were once "join in only" get promoted to "happy to start off". Stick with it and things will get easier.
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Frank Lee

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Re: Falling flat on my Face
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2014, 12:12:40 AM »

An eminent American 'cellist once said 'if you're not nervous, you're irresponsible'!  I've been playing for nearly 40 years and never really know when I'm about to have a serious attack.  It does get easier, but that was sound advice from GPS, and I agree with Oysterboy about the over-thinking.  The tunes need to be thoroughly in your muscle memory, after which the skill is in consigning any thinking right to the back of your head  and let the tune just flow.  In my case, red face moments are almost always down to suddenly finding myself thinking "I don't actually know what I'm playing here - hope I can remember how I do the fingering in this next bit". FATAL.  But it has to be said, you probably have to get used to feeling a complete idiot quite often before you get used to playing for a critical audience.  Then again, from time to time I see the great and the good make fairly bad cockups, and I suspect the audience isn't really thinking what you think they're thinking when things do go wrong.  One observation about my own playing is that when I play for morris and clog sides  I very rarely go wrong.  I put this down to having played the tunes 5,000 times at practices, and I tell myself the attention of the audience isn't really on me, even though it might be.  As for concerts, well, I've never ridden a motorbike with no hands on the wall of death, but I guess there's not much difference in the degree of terror.  But I'm an amateur muso and don't do concerts often enough to ever be comfortable with them.
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Grape Ape

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Re: Falling flat on my Face
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2014, 01:26:20 AM »

Thanks to everyone for their responses so far. While they don't really make me feel any better, they provide hope for the future.  Frank, (nice name by the way!) what you describe is much like what happened.  I know the tunes but doubted myself somehow. I should point out I was playing solo, however I give lecturese on wine to large groups routinely with no issue regarding standing in front of a group.  It was very much as if suddenly all the songs I know and had practiced perfectly through only the night before had been erased from memory. I will still jump at each and every opportunity to play that I encounter in the future, but at this point, I can't convince myself it won't happen again. :-\

Frank
« Last Edit: September 23, 2014, 01:32:54 AM by Grape Ape »
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Cardiff Pauly

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Re: Falling flat on my Face
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2014, 05:48:45 AM »

Grape Ape my friend, I have an empathy with you and your situation.
Noticed that all posters to your thread have experienced the same issues, and the same goes for me. Interested to know if you sing with your box, as forgetting your words is the worst experience, and starts off the problems for me.
I always tell myself that most people in any audience, would love to play an instrument and stand (sit) in front of others and make music.
I have gone away from "practicing on stage", which was my big error, as Bob Dylan once sang "I know my songs well before ii start singing", which is key.
I liken it to speaking in public, the moment you start listening to your own voice, you will lose it.
Please continue, don't be put off and make music, the world needs it!  8)

« Last Edit: September 23, 2014, 07:57:07 AM by Cardiff Pauly »
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penn

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Re: Falling flat on my Face
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2014, 07:52:16 AM »

I attended a public speaking class at work and although some of it was mumbo jumbo, one thing I took from it was to feel good about yourself, and think of moments when you've performed really well before you go on. I expect Grape has given his wine talks successfully many times so is always confident he'll give the right performance.
I too worry about forgetting words, and there are some songs I worry about more than others. I was so chuffed to get throughout the first verse of one the other night that I forgot to sing the chorus!
Steve
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Sebastian

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Re: Falling flat on my Face
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2014, 08:44:05 AM »

the moment you start listening to your own voice, you will lose it.
Yes, exactly. It happens to me nearly every time when I'm playing before other people, sooner or later. Then the only thing I can do is to resort to "automated operation mode" for one or two bars (not always working well). Very annoying. I don't like it. And it happens with other instruments, too.  >:(
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Helena Handcart

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Re: Falling flat on my Face
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2014, 01:04:18 PM »

Greetings Grape Ape

Well, I did something similar and allowing for time differences at pretty much the same time - not nice is it?

I've recently just about cracked Jiggery Pokerwork after not a little effort and some swearing. Quite a bit of swearing actually.  My pokerwork has low notes not accidentals so I can't actually play JP on it and y'know I fancied giving it a go so I borrowed one in a session to try it out, a Chinese one with fingerboard and pallets as nature (and Hohner) intended.  It went fine(ish) first time through until the second 'B' and then disaster struck and I fell off completely  :-[

Luckily this happened in a 'steady speed' session where I was among friends and those that I don't know were relative newbie players but I did feel a bit of a pillock and I won't be doing that again in a hurry. 
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Howard Jones

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Re: Falling flat on my Face
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2014, 09:44:37 AM »

Experience doesn't prevent you feeling nervous, but you get better at dealing with it, and more confident that the tricky passage or next verse you're worrying about will pop into your memory at just the right moment (or you become good at bluffing - often the audience won't even notice what seems to you a glaring mistake).  Or just laugh it off, as John Kirkpatrick does.

I know that no matter how much I practice a new piece in private, the first time I play it in public I'm prone to mistakes.  I try to 'play out' new material at a small informal session where I can get this out of the way in front of a friendly and sympathetic audience before I try it for real.

TomB-R

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Re: Falling flat on my Face
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2014, 01:04:59 PM »

I'd suggest that performance is like concrete, it needs time to cure before it reaches full strength, and until then, it'll break under pressure.  If you play something "difficult" that you've only recently learned, it doesn't matter how much you practice in the days before the performance, it'll break in public.

It's a bit of an exaggeration, but I'd suggest, if you have to practice it, you shouldn't be doing it!


Nervousness/excitement before a performance can be a funny thing - one time when my lovely partner and I hadn't been together that long I was doing what felt like a high profile concert (in relative terms!)  I thought I was feeling fine and was waiting for the start time when she texted me to say she was in the foyer, so I went round to see her, walked up to her, and put out my hand to shake hands! (She still teases me about it sometimes!)

They say professionals know the material so well they can't make mistakes. I wonder if they do make mistakes, but either correct them so fast, or hide them so well, that we don't notice.

Mileage in public makes a huge difference. Busking is one way to clock up the hours. I think playing for a dance side has done me loads of good in all sorts of musical ways, but that has always been solo, which makes a big difference. But even playing intros to a bunch of people, time after time on practice nights, makes a difference.
Best of luck,
Tom
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Anahata

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Re: Falling flat on my Face
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2014, 03:57:45 PM »

They say professionals know the material so well they can't make mistakes. I wonder if they do make mistakes, but either correct them so fast, or hide them so well, that we don't notice.

They certainly do. Nobody's perfect.

They cover up for other things too. I once watched Dick Gaughan change a broken guitar string between songs on stage. If you weren't watching carefully, you wouldn't even have noticed why the introduction to the next song was talking a little longer than usual. (complete set of spares in back pocket, reason for delay never mentioned)
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Idelone

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Re: Falling flat on my Face
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2014, 05:26:29 PM »

It's funny, this business of playing in front of others or your peers, as it is something I really struggle with on the melodeon, so I can really sympathises with GrapeApe.

I was at the session that Helena was alluding to, and was trying to pick my way through a tune when it changed to another mid-way through. I know this one I thought, but for the life of me I couldn't play it or remember where I had heard it, so I struggled to keep up, till the last few bars came around, and then the penny dropped, I realised it was one of my favourite border tunes, and one of the few that I can actually play well without pilsing up. It seems that as soon as there is anyone else in the vicinity, my hands, brain, and ears go walk about, regardless of the number of hours spent practising a piece, and no matter how basic it might be. It is getting better, but it's the old inner voice that trips me up, "that passage that you struggle with in practise is coming up next". Bang ! ; train crash.  Having spent many years singing in a Jump Jive band, performing in front of an audience was something I was quite used to, and on the odd occasion, I would come to the end of a chorus and think "I haven't got a clue what the next verse is". More often than not it would arrive in time, but if it didn't I just made up some appropriate lyrics, and moved on. Not so with the box, when I loose it, I loose it, pushing when I should be pulling, and vice-versa, to the extent where I'm thinking of investing in a wide brim hat to fill with chestnuts. Nothing like a bit of renewable face and ear'nergy to heat things up.

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Helena Handcart

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Re: Falling flat on my Face
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2014, 06:31:27 PM »

... I know this one I thought, but for the life of me I couldn't play it or remember where I had heard it, so I struggled to keep up, till the last few bars came around, and then the penny dropped, I realised it was one of my favourite border tunes, and one of the few that I can actually play well without pilsing up...

As a wild guess would that have been Theme Vannetais which was followed by Uttoxeter Swing?  As far as joining in with tunes you know and getting back on a tune when you've fallen off it seems to me that it is just a matter of practice... this is why I go to as many sessions as possible and try not to be afraid of making a total pillock of myself. 

This time last year I really struggled with stuff that comes easy(ish) now, I've still got a long way to go to but it is improving.

The good thing about the Dorking and Ewell sessions is that we have slow/steady hours where it is easier for newer and less confident session players can suggest, start or ask someone else to start tunes.  Other steady speed sessions are of course available - the Alton one might be a bit of a trek for you but I try to make the effort.
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Idelone

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Re: Falling flat on my Face
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2014, 07:20:01 PM »

As a wild guess would that have been Theme Vannetais which was followed by Uttoxeter Swing?

Spot on, that woman !

The session thing I find slightly alien; everyone playing the same tune over and over can make it difficult to hear the individual rhythms and I feel that it is unfair to sit behind someone who is playing with accomplishment, whilst you're noodling away (badly) trying to find a tune. I am also a firm believer that the place to practice is in solitude, not in front of an audience, regardless of who they are; it's not something you should impose on others.

I can feel thread hijack coming on, so I'll stop.

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AirTime

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Re: Falling flat on my Face
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2014, 08:33:26 PM »

I will say that the experience of melnetters playing in the UK at "sessions" is likely to be entirely different from those of us playing "in isolation"  in NA.

Speaking from my own experience, I have been shocked & dismayed by just how long it takes to be able to learn a tune thoroughly enough to play it confidently & competently in public. I have experienced exactly the sense of failure described by Grape.  Recently, I had the first experience of reasonably successful playing in public  - in front of 30 or 40 people. A couple of drinks helped a bit, the loss of coordination being less significant than the gain in relaxed concentration!

All I can offer, is that when you think you know the tune pretty well, you still have to play it a few hundred more times ...   :||:
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Theo

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Re: Falling flat on my Face
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2014, 08:48:37 PM »

Just watching Martin Simpson in concert completely mangle one verse of a song.  He never  stopped playing pointed out his mistake and then sang the right verse.

Don't worry about mistakes, just keep playing.
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Re: Falling flat on my Face
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2014, 10:18:45 PM »

Quote
Don't worry about mistakes, just keep playing.

I think what Grape is describing is a complete breakdown: when you can't figure out what you're supposed to be doing & how to continue - I've been there!  It's a bit different from the pro who is able to fudge it & carry on.

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