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Author Topic: Playing "second melodeon" for Morris dancing  (Read 4858 times)

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Sandy Flett

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Playing "second melodeon" for Morris dancing
« on: October 19, 2014, 09:07:09 PM »

For the past couple of years I have only been playing for my Cotswold Morris side occasionally, usually as lead/only musician when the regular lead musician is not available. However, other times when I go out with them I just fall in behind the lead musician but find it less than satisfying just playing the tune (without the responsibility of getting it just right).

What sort of "second melodeon" accompaniment could I try - harmonies, counter-melody, rhythmic chording, drones ..... ? And is this "done" in Cotswold Morris (any good examples?) or is it frowned on, or even potentially distracting for the other musicians and the dancers?
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Theo

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Re: Playing "second melodeon" for Morris dancing
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2014, 09:10:40 PM »

Speaking as one who has never played for the Morris, or dance it, I know that the very best Cotswold dances I've watched have all had a solo musician.
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GuyWyatt

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Re: Playing "second melodeon" for Morris dancing
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2014, 09:21:10 PM »

Really second melodeon should be playing the tune straight, in my view, allowing first melodeon to go off on flights of musical fancy.
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malcolmbebb

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Re: Playing "second melodeon" for Morris dancing
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2014, 09:32:04 PM »

About what I was going to say. Except by prior arrangement. Especially for Cotswold.

It can work, but if not practiced it can be muddy and confusing. You aren't playing the tune for yourself, you can do that in the session afterwards, but for the dancers. I hate it when the music isn't clear, because the musicians are amusing themselves or someone has gone into "Banks of the Seine" legato mode for whatever reason. Speaking as a dancer.

For Border it doesn't matter because you can't hear the orchestra band above the drum anyway.  >:E
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jbarstow

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Re: Playing "second melodeon" for Morris dancing
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2014, 09:40:46 PM »

You would be hard pushed to find a better example of two/ three musicians working together with Hammersmith. Particularly the musicians work together to create the sound with both of them complementing each others melodies and counter melodies.


You could always just ask Ian.....
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pikey

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Re: Playing "second melodeon" for Morris dancing
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2014, 10:55:41 PM »

Best if you both play the same notes.
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Broadland Boy

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Re: Playing "second melodeon" for Morris dancing
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2014, 12:18:33 AM »

The notes is the easy bit Pikey, Theo does 'em, (and very nicely too  ;) )

My trouble started when I stuffed the notes back in the Liliput, raised steam and tried to get them in the right order  >:E

Are you saying its possible for two melodeonaires to get them right, together ?  the odds against that must be astronomical  :o
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Nick Collis Bird

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Re: Playing "second melodeon" for Morris dancing
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2014, 12:26:13 AM »

Somebody trying fiddly bits in the background don't work. Unless practised to perfection. Referring to Cotswold of course.
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robotmay

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Re: Playing "second melodeon" for Morris dancing
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2014, 01:13:00 AM »

I usually play second to Alun in Cardiff Morris, and it works fairly well (I think). I play the tunes pretty much straight and with the 3rd voice in on my box most of the time, which has some pretty strong basses, and he has a rather punchy Oakwood (with somewhat less punchy basses), so you really only ever hear his melody. Can't find many decent videos, but here's one from a very confined space (and filmed from my bass end, which is less than ideal) with a fairly decent rescue when we sorta finished the tune early ::)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i1uHOZO83Y

Only problem I have is keeping in time. I find it really hard to do if I'm not stood on his right-hand side, and I find it much harder to keep time for morris than when playing with other people normally. :-\
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Clive Williams

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Re: Playing "second melodeon" for Morris dancing
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2014, 09:34:54 AM »

Very much depends on the style of morris I'd say. Very difficult to do with a style with 'slows' in it, to get the timing absolutely spot on, but.... part of it is that you need to develop backup players to the main musician for when they're not present, and there's no substitute for playing alongside someone for that.

jonm

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Re: Playing "second melodeon" for Morris dancing
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2014, 09:42:09 AM »

Cotswold requires one lead musician playing to the dancers. Anyone else is playing with them. The issues with pace and phrasing in Cotswold are the rise and fall, capers etc. so one needs to follow the dancers and the rest need to follow them.

I don't like more than two musicians unless they are very experienced in playing together.

Depending on the lead musician (I dance more than I play so tend to play backup) I may emphasise the rhythm, add some breadth to the chords, play countermelody or play the core tune, depending on the tune, dance etc as well. I think it is essential for all musicians to be watching, and familiar with, the dance and dancers, otherwise you end up playing something flowery when they go into the slows! Because it is complex accompanying a player who is playing to the dancers, but watching the dancers at the same time, I think you need to be either quiet or expert, preferably both.

There are advantages to multiple musicians when you have snowballing, two dancers come in, one player, two more, add a player etc.

It is also worthwhile considering not all playing basses unless you are all playing the same chords. I have an advantage that my basses point a different way to everyone else's!
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Nick Collis Bird

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Re: Playing "second melodeon" for Morris dancing
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2014, 11:02:01 AM »

I do believe we have been here before.
 Or was that in a previous life?
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Sandy Flett

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Re: Playing "second melodeon" for Morris dancing
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2014, 11:19:14 PM »

Thanks for all the responses. Main message seems to be to ensure nothing takes away from delivering a clear tune and rhythm for the dancers.
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Anahata

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Re: Playing "second melodeon" for Morris dancing
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2014, 08:45:55 AM »

When I played for Smiffs with IanD I tried to match notes, timing and chords as accurately as possible. It was a good exercise in listening and concentration.

Later, when playing for Pig Dyke Molly, I would often go off into harmonies as long as someone else was playing the tune. When you do that, your harmonies still have to be percussive and rhythmic - you're still supplying the beat and the dance energy, just to different notes.
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Shakin' All Hohner

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Re: Playing "second melodeon" for Morris dancing
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2014, 09:45:05 AM »

I often play alongside one or two melodeon players for the morris - but I have to say it doesn't always work as it should even though we know each other well. It needs each player to really listen to the lead. In my opinion no more than two is best, and two who are used to each other's playing at that. But having said that, at a performance a few weeks ago I was playing on my own and up beside me and quite unexpectedly steps JD that fine Broadwood player. I continued playing straight and bouncy and he enhanced with counter melodies. The dance went on and on. Eventually when it was finished two spectators came up and said you two must practice regularly together - that sounded fantastic. John and I just looked at each other and grinned as we had never played together for the dance. Then the dancers admitted that they couldn't stop the dance as they were enjoying the music so much.  Always expect the unexpected.
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Playing "second melodeon" for Morris dancing
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2014, 06:23:17 PM »

I find that bands (ie 2+) are OK for NW, and Border traditions, not done Molly.

But Cotswold in particular is a tradition for "musician and six fools"; The dignity and grace of a good team really benefit from a clean sound, sensitive to the dance itself. As "massed Morris" at ring meetings has proved anything else is a bit of a dumbing down? Maybe a drum works, but even that works best under the right hand of a solo tabor player. :|glug
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 08:19:03 PM by Chris Ryall »
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pikey

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Re: Playing "second melodeon" for Morris dancing
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2014, 07:21:33 PM »

Chris, I agree. Unfortunately my fellow musicians don't.......
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TomB-R

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Re: Playing "second melodeon" for Morris dancing
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2014, 10:29:17 PM »

In Step Clog, which I play for, there's a strong tradition of solo musician.  As it happens there's no one else with our side anyway at present, but when there was we used to take turns.
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Re: Playing "second melodeon" for Morris dancing
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2014, 12:13:51 AM »

I'm not sure that it is much help to Sandy to say that Morris is better with a solo musician because his question was predicated on there being more than one musician.

Having danced with sides with a solo musician and with sides who had more than one, I think that what matters is not how many musicians there are but how much lift they can provide for the dancers. The best musicians to whom I ever danced were the Hammersmith musicians of the late 1960s and early '70s (John Kirkpatrick, Buttercup, Doug Sherriff, Ray Toomey et al.) There was rarely just one musician, but dancing to their music was a delight. They didn't bother with a harmony line, which can muddy the sound from the dancers' point of view. They just played the tune in tight unison and, by heck, they were good! This is not to cast nasturtiums on later Hammersmith musicians. I haven't danced to their music, so I don't feel qualified to comment other than to say that, purely from the point of view of a spectator, I think their current musicians sound damned good.
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TomB-R

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Re: Playing "second melodeon" for Morris dancing
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2014, 09:23:52 AM »

I'm not sure that it is much help to Sandy to say that Morris is better with a solo musician because his question was predicated on there being more than one musician.

Fair enough Bob, hence my point about taking turns, though I realise that might be non-negotiable!
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