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Author Topic: Newbie Question.....Key of C  (Read 9439 times)

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Owen Woods

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Re: Newbie Question.....Key of C
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2009, 11:37:18 PM »

A two row? D/G for me as well.

What is a "reversal"? I don't think I've come across that term before.
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OwenG

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Re: Newbie Question.....Key of C
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2009, 12:12:20 PM »

Quote
What is a "reversal"?

A note available in the opposite direction from usual. For example, having D available on the pull as well as the push. 2.5 row boxes often have reversals as well as accidentals on the half row.

I've got a 30 button 2.5 row C/F box and I am currently enjoying playing in D and G on it, as well as playing in C and F, so I guess this would be my box of choice at the moment.
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Owen Woods

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Re: Newbie Question.....Key of C
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2009, 07:09:49 PM »

Quote
What is a "reversal"?

A note available in the opposite direction from usual. For example, having D available on the pull as well as the push. 2.5 row boxes often have reversals as well as accidentals on the half row.

I've got a 30 button 2.5 row C/F box and I am currently enjoying playing in D and G on it, as well as playing in C and F, so I guess this would be my box of choice at the moment.

Ah right, I didn't know there was a proper word for that. Thanks! :)
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ganderbox

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Re: Newbie Question.....Key of C
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2009, 02:49:09 PM »


If you are playing for Morris or taking part in sessions, it has to be D and G because the overwhelming majority of the tunes are played in those keys, but I would move all the buttons up a bit to accommodate more accidentals, of which F natural is the most important to me so that I can play in C.
[/quote]

I hate accidentals down the bottom (as it were!). If I couldn't have even a tiny extra row I might cheat and go for a Streb!

Pauline
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Martin J

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Re: Newbie Question.....Key of C
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2009, 10:05:15 PM »

I hate accidentals down the bottom (as it were!). If I couldn't have even a tiny extra row I might cheat and go for a Streb!
Pauline
The Merlin would be just the box for you, two extra buttons.  Next is the Galaad with four extra buttons and 12 bass, then it's onto the costalotties.
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WillQ

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Re: Newbie Question.....Key of C
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2009, 11:13:32 PM »

I have a D/G box which is a fourth button 'Doh' start.  Buttons 2 on each row are where the low notes/other accidentals are. On the G row, I have the low B on the push and a low F on the pull (this allows me 1 full ocatve of F major and 2 octaves of D minor), which now saves me having to take my C/F box out. On the D row there is a low F# on the push (normal) and a low C natural on the pull (with the low F this gives two full octaves of C major)
 
Buttons 3 are what would normally be on buttons 2, and of course 'Doh' is on button 4. I find it's like having having two boxes in one. Yes - still missing some stuff on the bass side of things. But I'm pretty happy with it at the moment.

I'm a little confused... but I think it's because I don't know what a few of your buttons do. Here's how I'm parsing your description of the buttons, using (P/D) to indicate press/draw on the bellows for each button, and the subscript number to indicate octave (using the Doh G as the base of octave #2), and maybe you can correct me and fill in the blanks:

G row: (_/_) (B1/F1) (D1/F#1) (G2/A2) etc
D row: (_/_) (F#1/C1) (A1/C#1) (D1/E1) etc

So one of the blanks must be F2 and another must be Bb2, but I don't know which notes go where, or what goes in the other two blanks. Help me out here?

My D/G box has Doh G on the third button, and has a somewhat unconventional set of lower buttons as I understand it:

G row: (D#2/F2) (D1/F#1) (G2/A2) etc
D row: (B1/B1) (A1/C#1) (D1/E1) etc

I occasionally use the B-press, occasionally use the accidentals... but really rarely touch those two buttons. And I almost never go up to the top buttons!

I'm taking my box in for service to the Button Box in about six weeks, just for some small tune-up things. To slide everything over a button, I'd basically have to get completely new reed blocks, but I could specify exactly what I wanted well in advance so they could make them for me and just stick them in, right? It sounds like I should seriously consider this, since I'm not altogether sure what the drawbacks are.

(Er, what are the drawbacks, if any?)
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triskel

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Re: Newbie Question.....Key of C
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2009, 01:59:01 AM »

There is a community of C players in East Anglia

Indeed there is Lester, something well illustrated by an assortment of melodeons that I bought in 2003, which had belonged to the late Cyril Stannard from Suffolk. He had single-row C's, and double-row G/C, C/F, C/C# and B/C boxes (though he also had a "new-fangled", seemingly unused D/G), but it was always the C-row that had got all the playing.

That tradition would be a "last vestige" of something that went on much more generally, in that folk dance music was played in whatever keys suited the instruments being used (most of the old free reed ones being pitched in C) though the tunes were often written down from the playing of fiddle, or tabor-pipe, players, so they tend to be notated for instruments pitched in D - but the fiddle players would simply tune down a tone and play in C (using D fingering) to play along with them, just as they still do in Cajun music.

The playing of D/G melodeons (and G/D concertinas) is a relatively new, post-war, development. The first commercially made D/G boxes were built by Hagstrom (who set up a factory in Darlington after WWII) in 1949, for Peter Kennedy at the English Folk Dance and Song Society. The very first Hohner D/G's only appeared in the mid 1950's, and the system was so new that a 1957 article in English Dance & Song, "What you can do with the melodeon", doesn't even mention it!
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Bob Ellis

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Re: Newbie Question.....Key of C
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2009, 09:02:47 AM »

If you are playing for Morris or taking part in sessions, it has to be D and G because the overwhelming majority of the tunes are played in those keys, but I would move all the buttons up a bit to accommodate more accidentals, of which F natural is the most important to me so that I can play in C.

I hate accidentals down the bottom (as it were!). If I couldn't have even a tiny extra row I might cheat and go for a Streb!
Pauline
[/quote]

I agree, Pauline, which is why I play a 3-row with an entire row of accidentals. This also enables me to have three full octaves on the D and G rows. However, the question was specifically about a two-row box, which is why I mentioned the accidentals at the bottom of the row.
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Johnf

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Re: Newbie Question.....Key of C
« Reply #28 on: September 30, 2014, 10:40:16 PM »


   I have noticed that a lot of 1 and 2 row boxes are in C or some combination with C. I was under the impression that most "western"    traditional music is in D A or G. So...what type of music is played on these boxes (excluding Cajun)?
   Thanks
      Jack
     
   
Interestingly enough, though Cajun players use a C box primarily, many many tunes are played in G or even A. They just move up two keys and ignore the missing notes (actually cover up with various florishes, chords etc.)
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martinpratt

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Re: Newbie Question.....Key of C
« Reply #29 on: September 30, 2014, 11:06:00 PM »

Possibly the OP is missing the point that a B/C box is played cross-row chromatically so can play in any key. It is not designed to play in B or C on single row. I know this is obvious to to most melnetters, but not possibly understood by a newcomer.
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Barry Swanson

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Re: Newbie Question.....Key of C
« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2015, 09:17:52 PM »

Possibly the OP is missing the point that a B/C box is played cross-row chromatically so can play in any key. It is not designed to play in B or C on single row. I know this is obvious to to most melnetters, but not possibly understood by a newcomer.
...apologies if I'm getting away from the original thread, but does this mean a B/C box is versatile but technically difficult ?
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Newbie Question.....Key of C
« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2015, 10:20:00 PM »

As triskel says, our DG boxes are a result of early tune collectors realising tunes were in D and G so got in a load of suitable boxes, and it's stuck ever since.
I think the same is true for French players who use GC boxes, whereas th German players prefer CF or BbEb to enable playing with their traditional OmPah brass bands.
Essentially the choice of key reflects the tunes played in your country, as a very gross generalisation!
Q
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Stiamh - away for the summer

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Re: Newbie Question.....Key of C
« Reply #32 on: February 19, 2015, 11:27:41 PM »

Possibly the OP is missing the point that a B/C box is played cross-row chromatically so can play in any key. It is not designed to play in B or C on single row. I know this is obvious to to most melnetters, but not possibly understood by a newcomer.
...apologies if I'm getting away from the original thread, but does this mean a B/C box is versatile but technically difficult ?

Well Barry the original thread is 5 years old so I don't think anyone will worry.

My opinions, for what they are worth (I don't play B/C but mess about with B/C style playing a fair bit on my C#/D).

Yes the B/C is versatile in that with reasonable proficiency you can tackle tunes in a wider range of keys than you could on a D/G.

It's generally less versatile in terms of bass accompaniment.

If you get very proficient on B/C then it becomes more versatile still - i.e. you will be able to play in more keys. Playing in any key is however beyond the reach of most players, even very good ones. (There are a few inordinately gifted players who can do it.) I don't think that completely chromatic playing is a reasonable goal for someone starting as an adult. However one of the great advantages of a semitone system is that you are never stuck for an accidental.

Is it technically difficult? I think (assuming you want to play in the usual keys of trad music) it takes a lot of dedicated work and, unless you are single-minded and musically savvy, some help from experienced players to get you over a few initial humps. Others may have other opinions.

Stick with your B/C. (A lot of people don't!) And seek help if you get stuck.
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Newbie Question.....Key of C
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2015, 08:47:30 AM »

Stiamh - it came up as new through 'unread post since last visit', I now see, after you mentioned it, that it is an old post. How odd.
There were only a couple of replies, so I typed something, then previewed it and more posts came in, including triskels, so I modified it as I thought he'd already answered it. I thought the posts coming in whilst I typed a bit odd but nearly added a welcome to the forum message.
Something odd has happened with the system.
Really strange.
Q
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

george garside

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Re: Newbie Question.....Key of C
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2015, 09:45:41 AM »

 

 If you get very proficient on B/C then it becomes more versatile still - i.e. you will be able to play in more keys. Playing in any key is however beyond the reach of most players, even very good ones.
quote

 I agree.  However having a third (C#) row makes playing in 12 keys much simpler and the accidentals are there in abundance. 


 
 george
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Theo

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Re: Newbie Question.....Key of C
« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2015, 10:21:56 AM »

Stiamh - it came up as new through 'unread post since last visit', I now see, after you mentioned it, that it is an old post. How odd.
There were only a couple of replies, so I typed something, then previewed it and more posts came in, including triskels, so I modified it as I thought he'd already answered it. I thought the posts coming in whilst I typed a bit odd but nearly added a welcome to the forum message.
Something odd has happened with the system.
Really strange.
Q

There no mystery or strange behaviour. Yesterday Barry Swanston added a new post to this old topic. That is why it came up as an unread post.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Newbie Question.....Key of C
« Reply #36 on: February 20, 2015, 10:33:18 AM »

Fair enough Theo I can understand why it came up as unread.
I think what threw me was the way it loaded up on my iPad
i.e. A couple of replies were there which is when I was going to join in, then a lot more after I previewed my post after a quick type.
It was unusual, never had it happen before. Must have been an odd glitch in the way it loaded up for me for some reason.
Q
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I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Jack Campin

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Re: Newbie Question.....Key of C
« Reply #37 on: February 20, 2015, 11:19:37 AM »

Quote
There is a community of C players in East Anglia

I noticed that when I dropped in to the Blaxhall Ship last autumn - where else does it happen?
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Martin P

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Re: Newbie Question.....Key of C
« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2015, 11:56:04 AM »

I always find it frustrating (and don't understand why ) on my Conemarra II with 4th button start and accidental 1/2 row, they don't fit a low C natural on G row somewhere. I have to fudge it and play low E instead.
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Theo

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Re: Newbie Question.....Key of C
« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2015, 11:58:16 AM »

You need the low G scale on your box.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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