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Author Topic: Primo Scholar  (Read 8879 times)

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simonj

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Primo Scholar
« on: October 21, 2014, 07:24:48 PM »

Hi Melnet,

New user, my name is Simon. I've been lurking for a while.

I've yet to own or even play a melodeon, but have my heart set on it. I've played the guitar (not very well) for almost 10 years, with a bit of Irish tenor banjo before that. Having had a "barn dance" band for my wedding reception a year ago, I have really been enjoying English folk music, and the melodeon looks like a lot of fun.

Obviously would be looking to buy a D/G melodeon. I know the general advice is "Hohner Pokerwork", but I'm not completely sold on the sound or looks of them. I have seen the Primo Scholar on the Music Room's website, and feel that this could be a good bet, considering TMR's good reputation here.

I've noticed a few people here have said box, and wondered if anyone has any particular opinion of them? Good or bad, your thoughts would really help. Or please tell me if I should really just get a Pokerwork and stop moping! I won't be buying until after Christmas.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Si.
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Anahata

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Re: Primo Scholar
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2014, 08:00:01 PM »

I've never played one, but I must say Jon's demo makes the Primo look and sound a good alternative to the Pokerwork. If you prefer the sound, I'd say go for it!
The only very slight reservation I'd have about that vs. Pokerwork is how well it will keep its value if you ever decide to trade it in for something else in the future.
But hopefully someone who actually owns one will come in with a better informed opinion...
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TomB

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Re: Primo Scholar
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2014, 08:26:44 PM »


I, neither, know anything about the Primo but I read this comment found on an accordion forum (whilst waiting for more comments from users) :

it`s Chinese and if its a Melodeon (the Primo Scholar) it`ll have Italian Reeds - Imported by the Music Room - the Melodeon is basically the same as a Scarlatti Nero - one step above a basic Scarlatti .. they can be good value if bought used for £100 but at the £400 or so RRP, get a used Hohner instead....... I've not seen a Primo PA . I doubt one would have Italian reeds (their CBAs don`t have as far as I know) , they only seem to do that with the Diatonics where reed response is far more critical.
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squeezy

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Re: Primo Scholar
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2014, 10:09:44 PM »

The Primo Scholar definitely didn't have Italian reeds when I worked for The Music Room - I don't think that's changed ... Sandpipers do use Italian reeds - but they're a league above.  I have to say that I really don't like the build quality on any of the cheapest badged Chinese boxes - and I would advise a used Hohner of equivalent price every time.
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pikey

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Re: Primo Scholar
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2014, 11:02:31 PM »

IMHO you'd be better off with a Black Diamond than a Primo Scholar. They are much better made.
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Bob Ellis

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Re: Primo Scholar
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2014, 11:31:51 PM »

I am another who has no experience of the Primo Scholar. I usually recommend new starters to choose either a Pokerwork or an Erica. The only differences between them are cosmetic, the reeds and mechanisms being the same in both instruments. Buying something cheaper as a beginner can be a false economy because cheaper boxes tend to be more difficult to play than Pokerworks and Ericas, which also produce a better sound in my opinion. These are two good reasons why many good musicians stick with these instruments or, in some cases, return to them after having flirted with more expensive boxes.
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Helena Handcart

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Re: Primo Scholar
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2014, 12:18:59 PM »

IMHO you'd be better off with a Black Diamond than a Primo Scholar. They are much better made.

If you are really set against getting a Hohner then I would concur with Pikey. I tried out both pretty much side by side in the music tent at Sidmouth while looking for a first box for a friend.  Personally, I found the Black Diamond easier to play and more responsive than the Primo. My friend bought a second hand Erica though, and it is lovely.

Your first melodeon really does have a big impact on your early learning. I settled for a second hand Delicia Popular Deluxe (aka the Decidedly Unpopular) because it was cheap and available.  It was heavy, slow and muffled and for four months I struggled with it, bought my Pokerwork and suddenly everything became easier  :|||:

Old Hohners also have the added advantages of holding their value if you decide to resell although as Bob Ellis points out many players return to Hohners after moving to more expensive boxes, newer cheapie boxes tend to gather dust or get sold on.

Whatever your choice, I hope you have a fun melodeon adventure.
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Theo

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Re: Primo Scholar
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2014, 12:40:35 PM »

Also worth considering a Weltmeister 86W.  Post German reunification Weltmeisters are very good, and are a bit more refined than Hohner, but easier to play than any of the Chinese makes.
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Re: Primo Scholar
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2014, 01:58:00 PM »

My first button box was a new Weltmeister (model: Monika 406) and I would highly recommend one as a starter instrument. I had mine for 2 years before I could afford a good quality box. I really enjoyed learning on it. It was the best quality instrument that I found for the money. Here's a link to the model I started on-

http://www.thomann.de/gb/weltmeister_monika.htm

This seems to be a good price too...!
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triskel

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Re: Primo Scholar
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2014, 02:14:32 PM »

I'll add my two ha'porth, which is that I'd consider the Chinese made button boxes/melodeons with Italian (Cagnoni) reeds, like the Primo Scholar, Black Diamond, Scarlatti Nero/Rosso, Dancemaster, McBride's and Wren (etc., which are all pretty-much the same box) to have lots of advantages over new Hohners (which are also made in China but cost a lot more), especially for a beginner - in that they do away with a lot of the problems/issues that new Hohners have always suffered from, seeing that they already have packing under the keys to stop the buttons sinking in and are tuned tighter/sweeter (more to the modern taste, whilst the sound off the Chinese Hohners is very piercing), the wind key is easier to use and they usually have a thumb groove in the edge of the treble keyboard, they also include a gig-bag or case in the price and often have a stop to remove the thirds from the chords.

An older, German made, Hohner may be a different story, but (if going down that route) a beginner would be best-advised to buy one that has recently been fettled to a good playing standard.

triskel

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Re: Primo Scholar
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2014, 02:18:23 PM »

http://www.thomann.de/gb/weltmeister_monika.htm

This seems to be a good price too...!

Only it doesn't say what key it's in, so most likely it'll be German C/F system...  :(

deltasalmon

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Re: Primo Scholar
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2014, 02:53:43 PM »

My first button box was a new Weltmeister (model: Monika 406) and I would highly recommend one as a starter instrument. I had mine for 2 years before I could afford a good quality box. I really enjoyed learning on it. It was the best quality instrument that I found for the money. Here's a link to the model I started on-

I have almost the same experience except a different model. My first box was, like Theo suggested, a Weltmeister 86W and I think its a great box. I've been playing it for just over two years. I have upgraded to a nicer instrument but have no plans yet on getting rid of the 86W yet.
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simonj

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Re: Primo Scholar
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2014, 04:38:40 PM »

Wow, thank you all for the great responses!

There seems to be no escaping the fact that a quality used Hohner will win over a beginner's Chinese box every time. I would assume this means a German-made Hohner though?

And for everyone who has suggested Black Diamond, I have had a look or two at their site, and it does look interesting. If they really are worth ~£500, I would be happy to pay it (just seen Daddy Long Les has a video-review of one). I will also look into Weltmeister, more food for thought.


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Re: Primo Scholar
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2014, 05:15:40 PM »

There seems to be no escaping the fact that a quality used Hohner will win over a beginner's Chinese box every time.
Definitely, in my opinion.

Quote
I would assume this means a German-made Hohner though?
Not necessarily. The newest Chinese-made Pokerworks and Ericas are absolutely fine. There would appear to be a good quality control now in place which has pretty much solved the initial problems (principally spring breakages) which occurred when the manufacturing was first outsourced to China.

The main criticisms are:
(i) the tuning straight out of the factory can be a bit wild in terms of tremolo. It's worth getting the tuning adjusted after a few months and the instrument can sound much nicer as a result.

(ii) the bellows tape is stupidly thin and flimsy and can wear quickly unless contact with belts and buckles is avoided as far as possible.

(iii) the RH buttons still tend to disappear down the fingerboard holes like cows down old mine shafts.

All these criticisms can also apply to the later German-built instruments too - it's not just a Chinese thing. Fortunately, tuning can be touched up, bellows can be re-taped (use the proper stuff, not insulating tape or duct tape) and button travel can be modified.
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Re: Primo Scholar
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2014, 05:51:20 PM »

I have been told that Hohner has its own plant in China that it set up itself and initially staffed with a proportion of experienced European people who helped train the locals in Hohner's methods.

If that's true it may account for the quality of Hohner's Chinese boxes.




 
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triskel

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Re: Primo Scholar
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2014, 06:34:45 PM »

The newest Chinese-made Pokerworks and Ericas are absolutely fine. There would appear to be a good quality control now in place which has pretty much solved the initial problems (principally spring breakages) which occurred when the manufacturing was first outsourced to China.

I must confess I haven't tried one recently (having been completely put off them), so they may well have improved - let's face it, they should after making them for something like 15 years in China!

But I've always found Hohner springs to be brittle and inclined to break (and usually it's one in the middle of the keyboard that entails removing the axle for half the keys and springs :( ), whilst the biggest problems I experienced with Chinese Hohners were (because of poor quality glue) with the reedblocks falling apart in them when they were delivered - that's much more major than a broken spring...  >:(

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Re: Primo Scholar
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2014, 07:51:25 PM »

Bought a new Primo Scholar as a second box, after weeks the air button metal strip / spring broke so returned it. Bought a new Dino Baffetti BPII, yes you can't compare the two boxes but the additional expense was well worth it.
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simonj

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Re: Primo Scholar
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2014, 09:38:44 PM »

Oh dear, the two people who have had their hands on the Primo seem less than impressed. I think I will have to suck it up and plump for a Hohner. I do like the ascetics of the Erica, and I suppose I could like the sound (but not the higher cost over a Pokerwork). Such trifling things such as looks and sound should not matter to me, a complete novice, anyway; a box that can be played without too much effort and won't fall to pieces in my hands is probably what I should be looking for.

I really should learn: buy cheap, buy twice. I have had enough dismaying experiences with buying parts cheaply, only to have to chuck 'em and buy the proper kit. I should apply this principle to more things in my life, including melodeon shopping!
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Helena Handcart

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Re: Primo Scholar
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2014, 10:11:48 PM »

Bought second hand an Erica need not cost any more than a Pokerwork and will probably be more comfortable to play for your left wrist. 

At the risk of sounding like a right old fart, if I'd known then what I know now I'd have plumped for the Erica. 

As it is I have a Pokerwork and a collection of leather wrist straps dotted all over the house.

Good luck in your quest for the perfect first box  :||:
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Re: Primo Scholar
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2014, 10:29:27 PM »

That's where you're going wrong, wrist straps should be on your wrist, not dotted  (:)

Btw I prefer a pokerwork to an Erica every time, the bass buttons are much easier to operate, and you soon get used to wearing a leather wrist band / thick watch strap / sweat band.

If I were you, I would either get a decent German made pokerwork, or a new Black Diamond. IMHO Primos are a waste of cash, the button action is appalling, even if the reeds are OKish.
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