Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Malcolm]

A fellow Crew member of the Traditional Sailors Hobby Horse at Minehead plays just three tunes on his Hohner 4 stop, that is to say the three tunes that are played over May Day. In my book that makes him a musician.

[Thrupenny Bit]

Just a little comment to Helena.
'Morris musician' is possibly one of the hardest things to do, as you have to not only be able to play the tune, but also wrestle with the intricacies of the dance then marry the two together.
Don't put yourself down girl, be proud, it is a difficult thing to achive   
Q

[John MacKenzie (Cugiok)]

"Can't remember who it was, that was doing an interview on Radio 4 a few weeks back, but when the interviewer asked him his view on something "as a musician" he said. "Oh no, I'm not a musician, I'm a singer, all the others in the group are musicians, except me, and the drummer"
That sort of fits in with my views on the matter."

Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure it was Bob Geldof, who said this.

John

[Nick Collis Bird]

Don't forget. A melodeon is not a musical instrument..... It's a way of life 

[Thrupenny Bit]

John, I think I'd disagree with Bob G on that, the original Boomtown Rats drummer was brilliant.
He moved down here became a neighbour of a friend here and years back, and when we assembled a scratch Big Band for a ceilidh we suddenly had a drummer. Him!
There's me thinking ' hmmmm this bloke's ok.....' and in a break someone enlightened me. Ah that explains it then 
He's moved on now, but..... some drummers *are* musicians!
Q

[Anahata]

some drummers *are* musicians!

Yes, and when you get to play with one, by golly you can tell the difference!

[pikey]

Musicians play music. The sounds that you make come out of a melodeon are music, no matter how many different tunes you can play.

Ergo you are a musician !

[Ollie]

Does that make a computer programme that produces a MIDI file from an ABC file a musician, then?

[IanD]

some drummers *are* musicians!

Yes, and when you get to play with one, by golly you can tell the difference!

The Giffords (Rob and Jay). If you get to play with both together (DDT=Dual Drummer Technology), so much the better :-)

[george garside]

Does that make a computer programme that produces a MIDI file from an ABC file a musician, then?

 
g

[butimba]

I like the phrase 'I'm learning to play' a lot, and use it at the moment with the melodeon. I reckon I'll switch to just 'I play' when I can take almost any tune and play it with the rhythm, dynamics, articulation, harmony and so on that I know I'd like to be able to (even if this takes quite a lot of practice on a tune to get it right). I suppose this will be the point when I stop feeling unsatisfied with my playing/feel like I can play in front of other musicians I admire without feeling embarrassed or like I have to apologise for my performance.

Of course as this thread has shown, this is all so subjective... and being able to 'play' an instrument can mean anything from being able to knock out a few tunes to being Grade 8 or above.

[squeezy]

I think there's a big difference between a musician and an "instrument player" ... although the two are blurred together they are also distinct skills.

A musician's skills lie in their brains - understanding and developing the music and letting it out through whatever means they have (instruments, voice etc) ... the skills of instrument playing are to move the appropriate part of your body to produce the right kind of note at the right time in a pattern that makes the tune appear.

Now - it's impossible to learn an instrument (I think) and not develop some sense of musicianship.  But in the pursuit of getting technically better it's very easy to neglect your inner musician - and I believe that both should be fed equally to get the best results.

That's the reason I can listen to some old source singers/players and hear great depths of music there despite off key notes and poor technique - but some grade 8 classical musicians can leave me cold.  Of course the best is when you hear both put together and then it is very special indeed.  Ultimately the instrument you play is only the tool with which the musician underneath can make themselves heard.

[Marje]

I think it depends who you're talking to. Most people, as has been observed already, don't have a clue about a melodeon, so I would tell them I play one, and would say this even when I played less well than I do now. When they realise that the push makes a diferent note from the pull, many people are awestruck at how complicated it sounds, not realising how intuitive it can be. The fact that most of us do it by ear and without even looking at our fingers also impresses classically-minded people.

It's very different from, say, a piano, which many people have attempted to learn, and they can tell quite easily whether someone can play or is just messing about. I play a bit of piano, not well, and I would never say I am a pianist. Ditto recorder and guitar. But I am happy to describe myself as a melodeon player.

When I started on melodeon, and was with other folk musicians, I was inclined to say "I'm learning the melodeon", until I felt reasonably proficient at a number of tunes. But there's no need to keep on saying this past the beginner stage. I find that most session players like me also regard themselves as permanent learners to some extent; it's understood that we all get things wrong sometimes, and can't play all the notes, or all the tunes, and we keep on learning from each other.

I'd never say "I'm a musician", as this should either be a term applied by others or a description of a profession.

[Bob Ellis]

Ergo you are a musician !

Ergo might be, but what about the rest of us? 

[pikey]

 

[Thrupenny Bit]

I'd agree wholeheartedly with Marje - I'm a learner and will be til I go to the Great Session in the sky. The day I stop being a learner is the time to give up.
Maybe once you're over the hump of initial learning ( so can play both hands together, can get a few tunes out reasonably well with a degree of emphasis in them) then surely that means you're a musician?
Possibly not a great one, but......!
Q
hoping he's a musician 

[pikey]

Good explanation from Squeezy.  I separate musicianship from being a musician ! I too know some players and singers who are technically proficient and can play/sing every note perfectly exactly as written, but who IMHO do not have any musicianship , which is all about timing, mood, volumetrics , pace, etc ie making the tune/song live.

Maria Callas is a great example of amazing musicianship, technically not perfect, but she can move you to tears.

[Nick Collis Bird]

[quote author=pikey link=topic=15754.msg193845#msg193845 date=1415365161

Maria Callas is a great example of amazing musicianship, technically not perfect, but she can move you to tears.
[/quote]

So do you Pikey, so do you.

[Thrupenny Bit]

Ah bless 

[pikey]

 

I'm not an instrument player, I am Spartacus !!