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[malcolmbebb]

Did anyone actually answer the OP's question? I rather suspect the answer remains no. Ed himself only takes it so far.

If you have a tune that you like (i'm not sure if the OP is one of Ed's students, or has his book) obviously you can annotate the score yourself to assist in learning to get your fingers around it. Takes a bit longer, but you only need to do it once (per tune)

[Grape Ape]

Sorry, I have been meaning to post to this thread. I use Bernard Loffet's site a lot, and also really Like Erwan Tanguey's site. If you google his name it will come up and has loads of numbered tab tunes on it.  Also try googling "tablatures diato or diatonique" and more will come up. It will be in French, but these sites are generally still easy to navigate.  Another good source is a site called Diatofiddle.
Sorry, I don't have links available, but again a simple google search should do the trick. Having answered the OP's original question, please allow me to throw in my two cents:

I can read notes in that I can count music, but for years have failed to grasp the "every good boy deserves fudge" thing. At the end of the day, what difference does it make if a note is designated in the mind as a number or as a letter as long as the correct note is played. Neither traditional notation nor tablature capture all of the decorations or feeling necessary to fully play a tune, as was said above,  so is there not more similarity between to the two than differences? In my mind, whether a note is referred to as a number or a letter is arbitrary. Either way, a certain amount must still be picked up by ear to be properly played, and whether learned from a number or a letter, or "do"or  "fa"as they learn it in France, what's the difference if the song is played correctly?

[Lyra]

Dots, tabs, abc all help to capture the music.
It's up to you to set it free.

[Grape Ape]

Yes!! Thanks Lyra, but I must add that I already regret my statement and think that it may stem from bitterness incurred as a result of my failure to teach myself to read music, play scales, and understand the first thing about chords and music theory. I grew up as a drummer you see.

 

[Bob Ellis]

I agree that dots cannot capture all the nuances of how to play a tune, but they do provide a useful aide mémoire of the outline of a tune and are a convenient repository on which one can write notes about fingering, bass accompaniment, etc.

While most of us play tunes from memory rather than from sheet music, I find that I can only hold a couple of hundred tunes in my mind at any one time. For each new one I learn, another one that I haven't played for a while drops out of my mind. Referring back to the dots provides a useful reminder of how I want to play a half-forgotten tune when I want to resurrect it.

[Lester]

I agree that dots cannot capture all the nuances of how to play a tune, but they do provide a useful aide mémoire of the outline of a tune and are a convenient repository on which one can write notes about fingering, bass accompaniment, etc.

While most of us play tunes from memory rather than from sheet music, I find that I can only hold a couple of hundred tunes in my mind at any one time. For each new one I learn, another one that I haven't played for a while drops out of my mind. Referring back to the dots provides a useful reminder of how I want to play a half-forgotten tune when I want to resurrect it.

Or
I agree that ABC cannot capture all the nuances of how to play a tune, but they do provide a useful aide mémoire of the outline of a tune and are a convenient repository on which one can write notes about fingering, bass accompaniment, etc.

While most of us play tunes from memory rather than from ABC, I find that I can only hold a couple of hundred tunes in my mind at any one time. For each new one I learn, another one that I haven't played for a while drops out of my mind. Referring back to the ABC provides a useful reminder of how I want to play a half-forgotten tune when I want to resurrect it.

[george garside]

I have never got the hang of reading ABC   notation despite several attempts to come to grips with it.  Perhaps oddly, whjlst not claiming to be a dot reader  of any substance  ( I can read the dots for tunes I already know!)  I find a glance at the dots  works very well to  'switch  on'  a long forgotten tune.   

Maybe its something  to do with  my enthusiasm for regular scale practice   that enables me to  'read' the dots as ''one higher, two lower, 4 up '' etc etc rather than  by the name of individual notes.  I presume good sight readers must do something on those lines as there isn't time to think G,F#.D,E or whatever.

george
 

[Jules0654]

We all have our own preferred way of learning a new tune; none are better or more correct than others, only some are more suitable to the player than others.

I know the OP, who struggles to learn a tune 'by ear' and doesn't read music, however from the numbered sheet music he can learn a tune in an hour or so, and within a few days is adding all sorts of clever 'twiddly bits'. He is becoming a very competent player and is certainly getting to the stage where the notes to play are becoming more automatic and obvious.

[Graham Spencer]

I have never got the hang of reading ABC   notation despite several attempts to come to grips with it. 

You and me both, George. I do find one use for ABC, though - stick it into concertina.net's converter and I've got the dots.......

Graham

[Bob Ellis]

I agree with you, Lester, that ABC can do most of what sheet music can. However, I find the sheet music more user-friendly, especially when it comes to playing through a tune to remind me how it goes, which I can do with sheet music, but I can't do with ABC, although I dare say that others can. This is a matter of personal preference rather than any intrinsic benefit one system may or may not have over another.

If the OP struggles to learn by ear and can't read music, it might be time for them to learn, since the lack of those abilities is clearly holding back the progress of somebody who, according to Jules's post, is already developing into an otherwise competent player. Progress can be made without one of those skills, but will be very difficult without either. As somebody who could do neither when he started playing, I can assure you that neither is difficult. They just require practice and the help of a tutorial book/DVD or a tutor.

[Thrupenny Bit]

I'm using abc's exactly as Graham. After first dismissing them as more confusing than dots I'm finding they gave their place en- route to dots.
I'm collecting tunes in abcexplorer, which enables me to convert them to dots and have an accompanying midi tune to go alongside the dots.
My sight reading is similar to George's - it helps if I know the tune 

I suppose that is the essence of it for me - the dots tell me which notes are being played and my ear tells me exactly how they are played.
Q

[Howard Jones]

I have never got the hang of reading ABC   notation ...

Reading it isn't really the point - it's intended to be read by a computer and rendered either as notation or sound.  However one of its great advantages over other computerised systems of notation is that it can be written and read by humans without a computer if the need arises. 

I use abc to write dots - I find it quicker and easier than most other computerised notations systems for simple tunes, although that ceases to be the case if you want to write more complex music.  When I don't have a computer to hand it is easier to jot down abc on the back of an envelope than to try to rule a stave.  However I'll transcribe it into an abc package later rather than try to read it back. 

[Sebastian]

I have never got the hang of reading ABC   notation ...

Reading it isn't really the point - it's intended to be read by a computer and rendered either as notation or sound.

No. C. Walshaw writes:

[abc], however, first appeared in a fledgling form in the eighties when I went hitch-hiking around the European mainland. I carried a flute in my rucksack and some tunes in my fingers. Now whilst I can usually remember how they start surrounded by the inspiration of a good session, I find it very difficult to get most tunes going sat on my own. I was musically illiterate at the time and so I resorted to writing the first couple of bars of all the tunes I could think of, using letters to represent notes.

[Chris Ryall]

Nice quotation … and very Chris!  This Chris actually did similar things, but the other's genius was to make the conceptual step to it being a markup language?

Bob & co: surely no music notation captures the nuances of play, and frankly, do you really want to express it in "exactly" the same way as someone else? Yes, there are various expression notations, including a few in AB. But in the end the timing and voicing tends to matter more than the notes? Listen to Anahata with Mary Humphries. I don't think she ever sings on the beat?

Apolologies to OP in this. You'll get there, i promise.
Get going … and then … follow your feelings.

[Graham Spencer]

[Reading it isn't really the point - it's intended to be read by a computer and rendered either as notation or sound.  However one of its great advantages over other computerised systems of notation is that it can be written and read by humans without a computer if the need arises. 

I fully appreciate that, Howard; in my view it's a convenient way to exchange musical notation digitally but needs a means of translation into another form to make it readable. As far as jotting down a tune in ABC, I'd be better equipped to jot it down in Venusian street slang. This is one human by whom it can be neither written nor read; a quick scribbled staff, a key signature and a few rough significant notes I can do.........

Graham

[Sebastian]

to make the conceptual step to it being a markup language?

This process was also begun by Mr. Walshaw himself, but only later on.

surely no music notation captures the nuances of play

I tend to disagree. In ethnomusicology we had enough examples. (But I don't want to elaborate on this now.)

[george garside]

I'm with Graham on this.   However I do occasionally use a completely different aid memoir for tunes  and that is to think up some words for the first few bars  i.e  a little ditty.   It can be daft, extremely rude or anything else  and the pikeys of this world should be good aat it.    I   also find it easier to remember  ''songs'' rather than 'wordless' tunes

george

[Graham Spencer]

I'm with Graham on this.   However I do occasionally use a completely different aid memoir for tunes  and that is to think up some words for the first few bars  i.e  a little ditty.   It can be daft, extremely rude or anything else  and the pikeys of this world should be good aat it.    I   also find it easier to remember  ''songs'' rather than 'wordless' tunes

george

Yes, I occasionally do that too!

[Howard Jones]

As far as jotting down a tune in ABC, I'd be better equipped to jot it down in Venusian street slang. This is one human by whom it can be neither written nor read; a quick scribbled staff, a key signature and a few rough significant notes I can do.........

If you're able to jot down proper notation then I can see that you don't need abc.  I can't draw parallel lines freehand, so anything on the back of a beermat ends up a mess.  For me, abc is easier and takes up less paper.  I can't put an abc program on my work laptop, but I can type out abc in a text editor on it, check it with an online converter and simply copy and paste into the program when I get home.  For me, abc is useful and I found it fairly easy to learn.  I can understand that if you don't see a need for it then there is no incentive to try to make sense of it.

To get back on topic, I don't find tab very useful for learning tunes - I prefer to do that by ear (perhaps by copying the notation and getting the computer to play it back to me).  However it can be useful to record tricky fingerings of individual phrases.

[Sebastian]

I don’t think there is much difference between abc and proper notation. It’s mostly superficial.

But numbered buttons differ in that they tell the player what he has to do to play a tune. That’s quite a different thing than abc etc.