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Author Topic: Handry Bass Layout  (Read 5924 times)

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AirTime

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Handry Bass Layout
« on: January 16, 2015, 05:58:31 PM »

I recently acquired an 18 bass Handry. The treble side has a conventional GCF layout. But the basses have me puzzled. Can anyone shed some light on this layout?

Knee End

Pull/Push  *

C/F   Bb/Bb   D#/G#

C/F   Bb/Bb   D#/G#

G/C   A/D     F#/C#

G/C   A/Dm   F#/C#

D/G    A/E    B/G#

D/G   Am/E   Bm/G#

Chin End

* Corrected!

Thank you for any input!
« Last Edit: January 18, 2015, 04:50:01 AM by AirTime »
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penn

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Re: Handry Bass Layout
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2015, 06:08:09 PM »

I'm strictly 8 bass meself, but I noticed this on the other thread and confused me at the time - surely it's Pull/Push not Push/Pull?
Steve
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Handry Bass Layout
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2015, 06:42:31 PM »

.
  … though  (without that push/pull) it might be entirely correct for a left-handry?  ;)
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rees

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Re: Handry Bass Layout
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2015, 06:47:43 PM »

Yes, I think you have your push/pull mixed up.

If it really is as you say then all the reeds are in upside down.

If you reverse the push/pull then all is correct for GCF.
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Rees Wesson (accordion builder and mechanic)
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AirTime

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Re: Handry Bass Layout
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2015, 08:20:22 PM »

Quote
Yes, I think you have your push/pull mixed up.

Oops... yes, wrote the push/pull the wrong way round - should read pull/push!

However, I remain confused. Here is an 18 bass layout on B. Loffet's site:

http://diato.org/pdf/3r18b-2.pdf

Obviously there are many variations possible, but where are my F's on the push & pull? Shouldn't there be a basic GC bass layout at the core of the system?
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: Handry Bass Layout
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2015, 11:50:39 PM »

Obviously there are many variations possible, but where are my F's on the push & pull? Shouldn't there be a basic GC bass layout at the core of the system?
Yes - you are right. Logically there should be F bass/F bass and F chord/F chord where you have D bass/A bass and Dm chord/A chord. As it stands, your layout is a bit odd.
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rees

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Re: Handry Bass Layout
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2015, 11:56:36 PM »

The outside and middle rows are standard GCF system as per Hohner Corona, etc. There is no standard layout for the inner row.

The Loffet system is based around a standard G/C layout. Your Handry is based around a standard GCF layout.
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: Handry Bass Layout
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2015, 12:03:27 AM »

The Loffet system is based around a standard G/C layout. Your Handry is based around a standard GCF layout.
Aha!  Like this then...
http://forum.melodeon.net/files/site/gcf31corona.gif
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AirTime

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Re: Handry Bass Layout
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2015, 03:02:10 AM »

Quote
The outside and middle rows are standard GCF system as per Hohner Corona, etc. There is no standard layout for the inner row.

The Loffet system is based around a standard G/C layout. Your Handry is based around a standard GCF layout.

Yes, I noticed that my layout is based on the Hohner Corona layout. La Maison De L'Accordeon lists a variety of layouts for the Handry, all of which are based on the standard G/C layout:

http://www.lamaisondelaccordeon.com/pdf/plans_clavier.pdf

What led to the two different approaches to the layout?
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Handry Bass Layout
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2015, 08:06:53 AM »

There is some informative (perhaps useful) stuff on this from the survey we did a few years back

     http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,1972.msg19738.html

seems there is no great uniformity in layouts. Extras can be to head, to feet side of the 8 "basic" buttons. Nor is it certain that chord sets with more b's will be towards the feet, preserving the directionality of the "basics". I have to say that this is my own preferred layout, and also that it drove me mad having both approaches on separate kit!

fwiw my present main boxes are both bespoke, and I have set them up with flatter keys towards my flat feet. The relativity of notes is also the same. So when Theo got to turn the Eb/F# plate over on one it was soon followed by turning the Ab/B on the other. It works for me

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AirTime

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Re: Handry Bass Layout
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2015, 03:59:30 PM »

Chris, I'm not concerned about the "extra" basses at this point - what they are, or how they are positioned. I am trying to understand the layout of the 8 "basic GC" bass buttons. The bass layout is different from all the 18 bass layouts in the Maison De l'Accordeon website, which, in point of fact are all the same, the (minor) variations being on the treble side. This suggests to me that there is an accepted 18 bass layout, at least in France, for the Handry. This layout seems to be fundamentally different in concept from the traditional Corona 12 bass layout.

Could you tell me what the basic layout is of your 18 bass boxes? Are they identical to, or a variation on the "French" layouts? Does anyone else have 18 (or 12) bass Handrys with the Corona bass layout?
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penn

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Re: Handry Bass Layout
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2015, 04:35:09 PM »

Could the difference be because yours is a gcf? The basic 8bass is conventional for a CF (assuming the fact that the two As in the same direction is a mistake?) isn't a GCF in some ways an extended CF?
Steve (mystified too)
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Theo

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Re: Handry Bass Layout
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2015, 04:37:09 PM »

Yes, your layout  has the standard 8 bass for a CF plus the additional 4 for the G row (which are not all the same as fir the G row on a DG.
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Re: Handry Bass Layout
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2015, 09:23:14 PM »

La Maison De L'Accordeon layouts would mainly be for the most common system in France which is G/C/acc, not G/C/F.
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AirTime

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Re: Handry Bass Layout
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2015, 05:35:09 AM »

Quote
La Maison De L'Accordeon layouts would mainly be for the most common system in France which is G/C/acc, not G/C/F.


Ok. This is starting to make some sense to me. First of all, I should explain that I haven't actually had the Handry in my possession - I only played it for about half an hour about a month ago, at which time I noticed I couldn't play what I wanted to on it.  The layout I posted was based on the layout Emailed to me by the seller.

This afternoon the box came back to me & I was able to play around with it for a while. As has been pointed out to me in this thread, my Handry isn't a GCAcc like the French boxes, it's a GCF. Playing it today, I was focused on the two inner (CF) rows  & playing the accompanying basses at the bottom of the bass end.  Now it’s become clear to me why it didn’t sound right when I played it before – confusingly, the D/A buttons (3rd & 4th buttons on the middle row) are actually reversed, playing A on the pull & D on the push.

The sound of the Handry is very, very nice, the action is extremely smooth & fast, compensating to a significant degree for the greater bulk & weight of the box, & the variety of sounds available from the registers on the bass & treble sides is a really appealing feature.  It does seem to me that the sound quality of the two inner rows is better than that of the outer row. I guess I’m now going to have to grapple with the decision of what to make of this box …
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Handry Bass Layout
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2015, 07:54:45 AM »

Could you tell me what the basic layout is of your 18 bass boxes? Are they identical to, or a variation on the "French" layouts? Does anyone else have 18 (or 12) bass Handrys with the Corona bass layout?

Eb/Bb     B/Ab       Bb/Eb     feet
chord.    chord.      Ab/B      inner row is bass only

 C/G        F/F          D/C
chord.    chord       F#/F#

 G/D        E/A        C#/C#
chord     chord        A/E       head

This is usually termed Milleret/Pignol, or Grenoble layout, originally with Gaillards, but several malers including Castagnari do it now.

Not sure there is a "standard" French bass end, though the GCaccs right ends don't hold too many surprises.
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AirTime

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Re: Handry Bass Layout
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2015, 05:35:04 AM »

Thanks Chris, although as it is now clear to me that my 12 bass layout is the traditional GCF layout, your Melodeon Explorer being the place I should have turned to first for this information. How the A/D buttons came to be reversed I don't know, but I have a suspicion that the box may barely have been played in its history - perhaps it came from Castagnari like that?
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Theo

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Re: Handry Bass Layout
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2015, 09:24:05 AM »

It wouldn't be the first Castagnari to leave the factory with the note layout not quite correct.
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Handry Bass Layout
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2015, 03:38:14 PM »

My Mori arrived with 2 buttons not as specified
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AirTime

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Re: Handry Bass Layout
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2015, 06:35:36 PM »

I would be very appreciative if anyone could provide links to any examples of video clips of tunes showing 3 row GCF's in action - using the outer row.
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