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Author Topic: In a Continental Mood....Passion or Technique?  (Read 5232 times)

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911377brian

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Re: In a Continental Mood....Passion or Technique?
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2015, 11:23:46 AM »

Me too Frank, which is probably why I stick to playing a one row, perfect excuse for a bit of bluffing...plus only two bass buttons in my case.... ;)
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Helena Handcart

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Re: In a Continental Mood....Passion or Technique?
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2015, 11:41:53 AM »

At the risk of slight thread drift (sorry chaps) I wonder if I might seek a bit of advice about this tune?  During a recent visit to C# House for the Halsway Manor showcase event Andy Cutting played this for the evening dance - I LOVE this tune - and the next morning I started noodling about with it on the box.

It actually went quite well, better than expected TBH and after watching a few videos for inspiration I put together a bass line, noted it down in ABC and so began several happy hours of practising.

So, what to do about accidental/bass mismatch in the B music - I am talking about a standard D/G two-row box here. There is one note (Eb?) in the B music which is generally on the pull on a two row D/G and which does not appear to have a suitable bass accompaniment.  I can get around this by firing up the Streb and switching to the Castagnari layout which gives me this note on the push on the half-row and a suitable Bm bass, however I am not a 2.5 row player and nor do I think I want to be so I need to find a more robust approach for this an other similar instances. 

In my limited knowledge of these situations I think my options are:

* play the 'wrong' bass and hope no one notices (although I will)
* play that run, or parts of it with no basses at all
* miss out the offending note and play something more suitable for a two-row i.e. something that matches left and right hands.

As a relative newbie to this situation I would welcome any advice, opinions etc. about the relative merits of these three approaches.

Or maybe I am barking up the wrong tree completely?  Maybe I should just go back to playing morris tunes.
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Peter Savage

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Re: In a Continental Mood....Passion or Technique?
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2015, 11:57:26 AM »

This is how I play it on a standard D/G: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_-6OucJxUo

I think I just alter the tune a bit when I get to that section with the Eb. 
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Clive Williams

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Re: In a Continental Mood....Passion or Technique?
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2015, 12:02:01 PM »

Yep, ditto. On other tunes though, I find Eb much more useful on the push rather than pull, and I tend to get that F/Eb reed reversed around on 2 rows - although I tend to like the other accidental, the G#/Bb as it is. Still, you don't need to reverse them both; just do the one you want.

Helena Handcart

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Re: In a Continental Mood....Passion or Technique?
« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2015, 12:10:54 PM »

Yep, ditto. On other tunes though, I find Eb much more useful on the push rather than pull, and I tend to get that F/Eb reed reversed around on 2 rows - although I tend to like the other accidental, the G#/Bb as it is. Still, you don't need to reverse them both; just do the one you want.

Clive - thank you,  this is exactly what I was thinking of. The D row accidental seems to work perfectly fine for me as is but the F/Eb G row accidental is in the 'wrong' direction in all the tunes I play that use it.  I was only hesitant about making the change because my experience of using these buttons is still fairly limited.
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Re: In a Continental Mood....Passion or Technique?
« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2015, 12:13:42 PM »

Yep, ditto. On other tunes though, I find Eb much more useful on the push rather than pull, and I tend to get that F/Eb reed reversed around on 2 rows - although I tend to like the other accidental, the G#/Bb as it is. Still, you don't need to reverse them both; just do the one you want.

Clive - thank you,  this is exactly what I was thinking of. The D row accidental seems to work perfectly fine for me as is but the F/Eb G row accidental is in the 'wrong' direction in all the tunes I play that use it.  I was only hesitant about making the change because my experience of using these buttons is still fairly limited.
Totally agree with Clive.
Get that accidental reversed to push D#/ pull F. It's much more useful like that, especially for Em tunes so you can use the D# accidental with a push B major chord.
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: In a Continental Mood....Passion or Technique?
« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2015, 12:21:00 PM »

Helena, for me ( with my Castagnari ) I have the Eb on  the push which ties in nicely with the B chord/bass, which is what you're discovering on your Streb in 'Casta mode'.
I have the reverse problem when playing JK or  Spiers written tunes, where the  accidental flows with the pull ( or whatever ) for me it'll be the other way round as they'll be written using Hohners or similar. That means for me I'm stuck with either a quick bellows waggle ( technical term! ) or some sort of cobble up to get over that piece of the tune.
It seems to be the case that the direction of the accidental might work in one tune but 'go against the flow' in the next, thus proving there's no right or wrong way for them. It just depends on the tune.

Like Clive and Steve, I find the Eb useful on the push. I've been finding I'm using it a bit on some tunes, and having just started messing with 2 new 3/2 hornpipes ( very early days! ) they too use my pushed Eb a lot so the corresponding B push bass/chord is perfect.
Haven't thought of a way round it cos I'm ok with that particular problem. Sorry.
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Helena Handcart

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Re: In a Continental Mood....Passion or Technique?
« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2015, 12:26:05 PM »

Hmm...food for thought (and at least it appears I wasn't asking a silly question).  Thanks for your responses.

I am firmly of the opinion that my various melodeons are designed for different jobs so perhaps a solution would to the the G row accidentals on the Nuage and Lilly reversed but leave 'em exactly as they are on the trusty old Pokerwork.
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Re: In a Continental Mood....Passion or Technique?
« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2015, 12:35:56 PM »

Hmm...food for thought (and at least it appears I wasn't asking a silly question).
There are no silly questions, but there are sometimes silly answers...

Quote
I am firmly of the opinion that my various melodeons are designed for different jobs so perhaps a solution would to the the G row accidentals on the Nuage and Lilly reversed but leave 'em exactly as they are on the trusty old Pokerwork.

I have two D/G boxes, and I've had both of their D#/F accidentals reversed as  described. Not changing them back...
Reversing the D row accidental button is the one I'm not sure about: One's been changed, the other hasn't.
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nigelr

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Re: In a Continental Mood....Passion or Technique?
« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2015, 02:05:33 PM »

Hmm...food for thought (and at least it appears I wasn't asking a silly question).  Thanks for your responses.

I am firmly of the opinion that my various melodeons are designed for different jobs so perhaps a solution would to the the G row accidentals on the Nuage and Lilly reversed but leave 'em exactly as they are on the trusty old Pokerwork.
When I had Lester retune my box to 4th button start Anahata G scale layout, I went for the F on the pull and the D# on the push so it is a better fit with the B chord.  It just made more sense to me and I've certainly not regretted it.  N
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Howard Jones

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Re: In a Continental Mood....Passion or Technique?
« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2015, 02:47:30 PM »

Playing melodeon means making a number of compromises, and that is part of its joy.  Sometimes these can be reduced by making changes to the instrument, for example shifting reeds around, but often that simply means that different compromises must be made. Sometimes you just have to make do with what you've got, and find a way of playing something which works, even if it may not be musically correct. If that means fudging the melody, or fudging the chord, so be it.  You're a melodeonist - rules are for other people.

Thrupenny Bit

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Re: In a Continental Mood....Passion or Technique?
« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2015, 02:52:33 PM »

" You're a melodeonist - rules are for other people..."
Classic comment!
Nice one Howard, I need to remember that.
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Mcgrooger

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Re: In a Continental Mood....Passion or Technique?
« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2015, 10:11:55 PM »

I seem to have come across a few tunes lately where the bass doesn't fit the RH, usually for just a few notes, or maybe I've just started noticing that it doesn't. I'm trying to stop playing with my LH during those bits. Trouble is that this usually requires engagement of the brain as well as the fingers!
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Frank Lee

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Re: In a Continental Mood....Passion or Technique?
« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2015, 11:13:32 PM »

My own take on this problem, because I hate making either the 'wrong bass' or 'no bass' compromises, is to reorganise the melody.  I sometimes have to do this  because most of what I play doesn't come from melodeon sources, and for the same reason I seem to get away with it because no-one knows the tunes anyway!  If I can't do this, or don't feel happy with the result, I abandon the tune altogether, there's no point in playing something I don't enjoy the sound of, and there's no shortage of excellent tunes to work at.
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squeezy

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Re: In a Continental Mood....Passion or Technique?
« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2015, 11:26:08 PM »

Hi Helena,

I know exactly the problem you face - my main box system has the D# on the pull but the B maj chord on the push too and that means that harmonising the crucial note with the B maj chord is (sort of) impossible.  As it's as important that keyboard layouts are familiar to you then I wouldn't be so hasty to flip that reed just for one tune!

You can trick the ear in to thinking it's getting both the right note and chord at the same moment by doing a quick bellows waggle and playing D# (right hand pull) - B maj (left hand push) - D# (right hand pull) - if pulled off correctly it also gives a lovely syncopation in addition to giving the impression of correct harmony.

Cheers

Squeezy
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: In a Continental Mood....Passion or Technique?
« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2015, 08:01:02 AM »

I think Frank has a valid point. I've struggled with a couple of tunes and haven't really been happy so I've let them go until I can come up with an idea I do like. As he says there are many more tunes to learn.

Thanks squeezy for a work around this problem. I don't need it but can adapt it for a push F that I need but only have a pull F accidental.
Will go waggling tonight  ;)

I've only just started to find out how to cheat, which seems to be an art form in itself!
A tune I've been playing requires a low F and I've managed to play two G's in it's place. Initially it sounded all wrong as I slowly learnt the tune. Now it's almost up to speed I realise my fudge is unnoticeable unless someone really knows the tune and is really picky.

Anahata and I have recently been discussing the Blew Bell Hornpipe, and the Walsh manuscript gives a third part to it, with a run needing a low D#. He's 'split' the run so the run including the D# is played up an octave thus using the normal D# at the chin end.
Brilliant! it sounds ok, and it's a trick I've used as I learn another tune with a similar problem.
I think I see another door opening as I realise there's a lot to cheating properly!
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Re: In a Continental Mood....Passion or Technique?
« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2015, 08:38:43 AM »

He's 'split' the run so the run including the D# is played up an octave thus using the normal D# at the chin end.

After a great deal of trial and error with various alternatives, it must be said...
...which perhaps answers Helena's question: as all tunes and musical tastes are different, when a conundrum like that comes up, try all the options you can think of, and choose the one that sounds the best to you. If you've really made your best effort at that research, nobody can convincingly criticise you for playing it "wrong".

In this case, the one I chose wasn't the easiest to play, but I knew it was (for me!) the right thing to do and sweated it till I could play it. The same with some of the chord choices in that tune. Also I left the basses out briefly in places for a felicitous combination of convenience and dramatic effect  ;)
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Re: In a Continental Mood....Passion or Technique?
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2015, 09:53:09 AM »

More melodeon magic. I once sat under a tree in France and watched Phillipe Bruneau play a one row in 5 or 6 different keys including three minors. Theoretically impossible (other than pentatonics) of course, eg position 2 phrygean has a flat second note that has to be missed (unless in Istambul) 8) But as he switched from one to the other the ear was carried along by his perfect phrasing

As in Squeezy's example, you hear notes that aren't there.
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Helena Handcart

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Re: In a Continental Mood....Passion or Technique?
« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2015, 10:28:25 AM »

... I wouldn't be so hasty to flip that reed just for one tune!

This is exactly what I was trying to avoid - making hasty choices based on limited experience as I have only just started to progress to the stage where such judgements are becoming necessary. I am grateful for all the helpful advice above - how lucky we melnetters are to have such a friendly and co-operative forum.

Having come to the conclusion that, for me, two rows and eight basses is probably going to remain my weapon of choice I know I will need to make some compromises. I am, I hope, learning to respect the limitations of the instrument and work with it.

Having switched to G scale over the past few months I'm going to give the reversal of that one accidental a try as I *think* it will fit in with more or the stuff I'm playing, or interested in playing, than the current configuration. The joy of the Nuage is of course that being 23 button I can retain the dog-summoning notes at the squeaky end, and render them non-squeaky with the low reed of course.

Thanks all for your advice, as ever.
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Re: In a Continental Mood....Passion or Technique?
« Reply #39 on: February 26, 2015, 02:46:01 PM »

... I wouldn't be so hasty to flip that reed just for one tune!
Having switched to G scale over the past few months I'm going to give the reversal of that one accidental a try as I *think* it will fit in with more or the stuff I'm playing, or interested in playing, than the current configuration.
Yes - if you do decide to reverse it to a push D# / pull F, you will find that it is is good for much more than just one tune! (sorry, Squeezy!).
It's also comforting to know that if you really don't get on with it (unlikely, I suspect) it's easy enough to put it back how it was.
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