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Author Topic: mallys bonny green garters  (Read 2327 times)

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Howie

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mallys bonny green garters
« on: March 07, 2015, 05:26:21 PM »

just started to play this from an original volume one book.it mentions a standard technique of passing the 2nd finger over the 1st to land on the button above.there is no way my 2nd finger will cross over my first to hit the button.am i missing something. thanks
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Graham Spencer

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Re: mallys bonny green garters
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2015, 05:41:55 PM »

When you say "the button above" do you mean the next one up the scale? The next one on the same row? The next one up (tonally) on the next row? The next one "up" physically (ie towards the top of the instrument, but moving downwards in pitch)? Or something else?  I'm sure we can help, but we'll need a little more information.....  Maybe if you could give us a little more about where in the tune this crops up?

Cheers
Graham
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Howie

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Re: mallys bonny green garters
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2015, 07:43:27 PM »

in mallys book it is in the 5th bar.the sequence of notes in this bar are   D,C sharp,D,A,F sharp,A  all played on the d row .
the sequence of fingers used is finger  2 2 2  1 2 3  the crossover occurs going from A to F sharp ,one button physically up the keyboard.
finger 1 is on the AB button (button 5) because on the previous bar the tune is using higher notes further down the keyboard.i am following the fingering recommend by Mally in the book. i think the theory is that unless it is absolutely necessary one never uses the same finger on consecutive notes unless it is  on the same button.hope thats clear,thanks
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Stiamh

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Re: mallys bonny green garters
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2015, 08:35:43 PM »

I'm assuming that the DC#D in your example are higher than the rest of the notes...

If you want to use that exact fingering, your index will have to shift out of the way just in time to allow the middle finger to hit the F# button. Trying it just now I do this by lifting the index and letting the middle finger it push it out of the way (towards my chin) as it (the middle finger) goes to the F#. Perfectly doable but I suppose it might need a bit of practice. You can't expect to cross the middle over the index on one row while leaving the index in position!

I can see plenty of other possible fingerings, but it would rather depend on what came before and after.

BTW while it might be theoretically desirable to avoid using the same finger on consecutive buttons it's not a crime and there are places where it is the best option. I do it all the time!

Edited to clarify the movement involved.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 08:41:04 PM by Stiamh »
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Stiamh

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Re: mallys bonny green garters
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2015, 09:01:37 PM »

Here are some (to me) perfectly valid alternative fingerings that start with the middle finger on the d and end with the ring finger on the A and avoid the cross-over in Mally's version (even if it's not really a cross-over).

Just to show there are often several ways to finger a passage without much to choose between them - theoretically. In practice what's important is that you find the approach that suits you best.

Code: [Select]
dcd AFA
223 213
222 113

I think the first of these is the most elegant of the three possibilities but the second is the laziest and easiest and so what if you slide the index down from the A to the F#.  (:)

Howie

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Re: mallys bonny green garters
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2015, 02:13:28 PM »

thanks stiamh,i have tried these and have to say i find the   223 213 combination good
this has taught me that fingering shown in a tutorial book may not suit everyone
i also think i am running before i can walk and that i should perhaps return to my Roger Watson book
thanks,howie
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boxdancer

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Re: mallys bonny green garters
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2015, 04:36:45 PM »

Mally's Bonny Green Garters is, for a beginner, well worth skipping.  The fingering is horrendous for a novice and could waste a lot of practice time. Also, the Mally book, along with other melodeon books, contains a few incorrect chords, easily rectified by 1. hearing that they're wrong 2. finding the correct ones.  However, I think the Mally book is absolutely superb and well worth mastering completely.  The selection of tunes is excellent, in great sequential order, (in general) and very well explained.  True, fingering can be an individual choice, but at the beginner stage I would say that Mally's fingering suggestions are absolutely fine (apart from the inclusion of the Bonny Green Garters tune!) and that if you stick to his fingering now you can always adapt it later if so desired.  Mally's book is, of its type, first class.  When you leave the relative comfort of a teaching book and launch yourself into tune books etc., you won't have the luxury of suggested fingering.  Therefore it's vital you persevere with suggested fingering now, especially from someone as experienced and respected as Mally.  And isn't it great to know that he (and a few other melodeon book authors) also make the occasional mistake!

« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 04:56:39 PM by boxdancer »
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Graham Spencer

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Re: mallys bonny green garters
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2015, 06:24:21 PM »

I think one of the things to bear in mind about Mally's approach to the melodeon is that he's a master of the Irish style on the D/G. I've been to a couple of his Irish tune sessions and been completely at sea; if you want to learn to play Irish on a 4th-apart 2-row there's no-one better. However, that doesn't necessarily translate to other musical genres. I've also been at English sessions with him and I'm sure he won't mind my saying that he doesn't feel entirely at home in that environment.  Horses for courses; same with tunes. If that particular way of playing BGG doesn't suit you then forget it and move on; there's no prescribed syllabus for learning the melodeon. You can always come back to it later and explore alternative ways of playing it that do suit you in the light of experience.

I should add that I've never ever used a tutor book of any description, so there may be something I've missed. I've always held the view of the late and much missed Tufty Swift - pick it up and play it; if you haven't got a tune out of it in a fortnight give it up and try something else..... :D

Hope this helps
Graham
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Sage Herb

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Re: mallys bonny green garters
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2015, 07:41:59 AM »

I've also been at English sessions with him and I'm sure he won't mind my saying that he doesn't feel entirely at home in that environment. 

Though I first met Mally when he was a musician for the (Bradford-based) Boar's Head Morris in the late 1970s.
cheers, Steve
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Re: mallys bonny green garters
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2015, 12:17:01 PM »

thanks stiamh,i have tried these and have to say i find the   223 213 combination good
this has taught me that fingering shown in a tutorial book may not suit everyone
i also think i am running before i can walk and that i should perhaps return to my Roger Watson book
thanks,howie

It's probably good and normal to obsess about optimal fingering when you are starting - and to maintain an occasional critical look at your fingering habits long after the point when you have stopped obsessing about them.

But here's another thought to keep in mind alongside the search for the best moves - a pearl of wisdom that George Garside wrote on here a long time ago that was a sort of lightbulb moment for me. He pointed out the need to develop a brain-button connection and not just a finger-button connection - in other words, when you know where the button you need to hit lies on your mental map of the keyboard, the brain can tell your fingers what to do without your having to think about it. (Please correct me if I have misrepresented your sagacity, George.  (:) )

Perhaps it's a bit like the way you can run over rocky ground with your eyes scanning the path ahead without your having to look at the ground beneath your feet and decide where to place each step. Of course being able to run, or at least jog, is a prerequisite!

I think what I am trying to say is that when you're learning a piece slowly phrase by phrase it pays to consider fingering carefully. But at some point you need to be able to relax and just play - even a new tune - and leave the details to your subconscious.

Also, always bear in mind that fingering moves that seem to be the most logical or elegant are not always the surest and fastest ways of playing the passage.

Graham Spencer

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Re: mallys bonny green garters
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2015, 04:48:31 PM »

I've also been at English sessions with him and I'm sure he won't mind my saying that he doesn't feel entirely at home in that environment. 

Though I first met Mally when he was a musician for the (Bradford-based) Boar's Head Morris in the late 1970s.
cheers, Steve

Yes - I wasn't suggesting he can't or doesn't play English tunes, just that his natural approach is across the rows in an Irish style rather than on the row which I think we'd largely agree is more typically English, and what seems an obvious fingering in one approach may feel distinctly awkward to a player using a different approach to the instrument. Whatever happened to Great Yorkshire Morris after the demise of Boar's Head, by the way (oops sorry - off-topic!)?

Graham
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Sage Herb

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Re: mallys bonny green garters
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2015, 05:27:17 PM »

I hadn't taken you as alleging that Graham, and I quite agree. It's just that there was a time in England when a box player was a box player and played for whatever was called for. The styles, skills and musos later became more segmented (and I'm not saying that's a bad thing). Funnily enough, I bumped into Mally at a Morris funeral only this morning.

(I've never actually seen Gt Yorks Morris, but they seem to still exist - http://gymm.org.uk.)
Cheers
Steve
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Stiamh

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Re: mallys bonny green garters
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2015, 06:48:46 PM »

Graham, are you turning this thread into a runaway :neigh:? What Howie wanted help with was a small passage played on the row. Forgive me if I don't see the relevance to that of Mally's credentials as an English or Irish or "insert land"-ish player.  (:)

Graham Spencer

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Re: mallys bonny green garters
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2015, 07:04:46 PM »

No - never having seen the book I had no idea whether we were talking on the row or across the rows, and I obviously wasn't up to the task of interpreting the information we had.
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Stiamh

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Re: mallys bonny green garters
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2015, 07:26:30 PM »

Well, I don't have the book either. I was just going on what Howie told us.

in mallys book it is in the 5th bar.the sequence of notes in this bar are   D,C sharp,D,A,F sharp,A  all played on the d row.
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