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Author Topic: Painting over celluloid  (Read 11289 times)

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Theo

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Painting over celluloid
« on: March 23, 2015, 11:06:53 AM »

Does anyone have experience of painting over celluloid?    I'm looking for actual experience, particularly relating to durability in use.  I know there are many paints that are incompatible with celluloid because the paint solvents react with the celluloid, so for the paints that are safe which ones adhere well and have good covering qualities and are durable in the long term?

Why am I asking?   A customer wants his red pearloid box changed to look black. I know I could strip of the celluloid and either paint the wooden body, or even cover it in black celluloid, but those are questions for later.   For now I'm confining my interest to a re-spray which on the face of it appears to be the simplest fix.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: Painting over celluloid
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2015, 11:26:20 AM »

Not done it myself, but for what it's worth, I dug this up.

http://www.ask.com/home-garden/paint-stick-plastic-should-painted-5e4d35240d822012


John
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gettabettabox

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Re: Painting over celluloid
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2015, 11:54:11 AM »

glad i didn't post this. anyone not in membership of the melodeon fettlers brotherhood would have been tarred and feathered ;)
strip and paint is the honourable way.  (:)
 

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invadm

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Re: Painting over celluloid
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2015, 12:45:55 PM »

hi Theo, is it an Erica by any chance you want to paint? if so I have a Black & Red Erica carcases in reasonable nick,PM or e-mail if you need photos. 
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911377brian

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Re: Painting over celluloid
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2015, 01:22:54 PM »

Theo, during the infamous and seemingly endless thread on 'Chansons' I painted one black using paint for plastic furniture and got a friend to 'barge paint' it with flowers all over. It is played quite a bit and doesn't seem to have worn. It's still in Devon and I'm now in Brighton so I Can't check further...
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Broadland Boy

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Re: Painting over celluloid
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2015, 01:55:28 PM »

Theo

I've painted various plastic items using cellulose based sprays (car paints) where the plastic type was affected by cellulose thinners it sticks like the proverbial to a blanket as it has a chemical key due to the solvent softening the surface, where the plastic is inert to the thinners it has resulted in a poor hold.

If you can find some cellulose based spray it might be worth a test on a sacrificial bit of pearloid / celluloid, unfortunately they seem to have gone over to acrylic paints in the touch-up industry and while these appear to react to cellulose thinners they appear to have some seriously different bonding characteristics when used on plastics. I've not found a durable finish possible on any plastic or non ferrous surface so far, regardless of mechanical preparation type used, worse than that for me, on my small steam engines, cast iron / steel can be painted nicely and with good adhesion, (unfortunately the cured paint softens at steam temperatures, bubbles like orange peel and can be wiped off while soft  :'() - BTW the acrylic lacquers seem prone to crazing and peeling, have gone back to Rustins.

For matt / satin blacks I find the high temperature aerosols sold for barbeque / woodburner fettling are pretty solid, although read the tin before purchase as some are only cured on first firing (so OK for PA's  >:E)

If for a border side muso, blackleading might look nice............

Richard

 
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Richard A
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Malcolm Clapp

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Theo

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Re: Painting over celluloid
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2015, 03:19:37 PM »


If you can find some cellulose based spray it might be worth a test on a sacrificial bit of pearloid / celluloid,

That is interesting, I had assumed that cellulose was not suitable because of the solvent effects.   I'll do some tests.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Pete Dunk

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Re: Painting over celluloid
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2015, 10:52:59 PM »

Unless I've lost it I have a piece of Hohner celluloid Theo, perhaps 4" x 3". Do you want me to post it up to you?
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Theo

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Re: Painting over celluloid
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2015, 11:02:57 PM »

That's very kind Peter, but I have plenty if spare celluloid.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Broadland Boy

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Re: Painting over celluloid
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2015, 11:17:03 PM »


If you can find some cellulose based spray it might be worth a test on a sacrificial bit of pearloid / celluloid,

That is interesting, I had assumed that cellulose was not suitable because of the solvent effects.   I'll do some tests.

Its probably worth a try with the acrylic paint too Theo, with an aerosol there is a limited amount of solvent which soon evaporates so if it briefly melts the surface of the celluloid it will fuse with it, rather than just being a coating.
If neither have a solvent effect, you might try a quick pre spraying with acetone to soften the skin ??
Can't envisage any obvious side effects like wrinkling or crazing but you never know, plastics and solvents be funny things!
Take it the blacklead idea didn't appeal  ;)

Other methods of experiencing a legal high in the workplace are available........
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Richard A
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Kimric Smythe

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Re: Painting over celluloid
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2015, 07:50:21 AM »

I have had good results with solvent based auto paints. I have even used "candy apple" lacquer over white celluloid to get other colors.
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Theo

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Re: Painting over celluloid
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2015, 08:32:53 AM »

Hi Kimric
Thank you I was hoping to get some actual experience such as yours.  Do you know which kind if solvent based paint you used?  Was it cellulose?
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Jules0654

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Re: Painting over celluloid
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2015, 01:46:21 PM »

Hi Theo

If/when this project is completed I would be very interested in the results as for some time I have wanted to have a box painted in the colours to match my side !
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Kimric Smythe

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Re: Painting over celluloid
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2015, 07:37:24 AM »

It was Testors hobby "candy apple" paint that I used, but it looks like it is really popular on motorcycles so custompaint shops may be a source, example http://www.colormaniapaint.com/candycolors.html
 I have found that the acetone /tolulene based lacquer works well. I believe it helps that it dissolves the celluloid a little as that gives it a really good bond.
Changing the color should not be a problem. I have used celluloid dissolved in acetone to repair cracks, and have experimented with airbrushing it on.
 I have only done this a couple of times but it never did anything bad to the celluloid, in fact it did not react at all.
 A good motorcycle airbrush painter could go crazy on a white or silver/grey pearl accordion.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 07:41:13 AM by Kimric Smythe »
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Gromit

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Re: Painting over celluloid
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2015, 08:36:05 AM »

May be worth looking at Zinseer Bin which is used for covering all sorts of surfaces - mainly a decorators primer/sealer but it may be useful

"Zinsser B-I-N is the ultimate shellac-based primer, sealer and stain killer. It is perfect for use on interior surfaces and spot priming of exterior surfaces. Zinsser B-I-N offers unparalleled adhesion to glossy surfaces – including glass – without the need for scuff sanding and blocks stubborn and persistent stains.

The high adhesion shellac formula seals porous surfaces with excellent enamel holdout, even sealing bleeding knots and sap streaks. Zinsser B-I-N works brilliantly on water stains, fungal degradation, nicotine, oil stains, marker pens stains and more."


https://www.rawlinspaints.com/paints-and-coatings/wall-and-ceiling-paints/stain-blocking-paints/631-zinsser-b-i-n.html?gclid=Cj0KEQjwi-moBRDL4Omf9d_LndMBEiQAQtFf833F01c6xZzt5TR0Nu1xO5X_eSzZDgK91zc48EEyZDAaAojO8P8HAQ

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=zinseer+bin&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=rUwaVdm4IMb4UI6qgSA
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Theo

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Re: Painting over celluloid
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2015, 09:38:40 AM »

May be worth looking at Zinseer Bin which is used for covering all sorts of surfaces -

Have you used it on celluloid or anything similar?
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Gromit

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Re: Painting over celluloid
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2015, 10:19:39 AM »

Quote
Have you used it on celluloid or anything similar?

Afraid not Theo, I know it's used by painters to cover all sorts of surfaces which is why I suggested looking at it - It's been recommended to me for painting over stains and varnishes but on celluloid I don't know - I'd check with a professional paint supplier (Brewers are good down south)
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Theo

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Re: Painting over celluloid
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2015, 12:15:08 PM »

Hi Theo

If/when this project is completed I would be very interested in the results as for some time I have wanted to have a box painted in the colours to match my side !

Project completed.  Thank you for your sharing experience, especially Broadland Boy and Kimric.   I used cellulose car paint in matt black.  Tested on a scrap of spare celluloid first where coverage was good, and excellent bonding.

Picture of the finished box which was originally red pearloid.  As you can see if you look closely I'm not an expert spray painter!
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Broadland Boy

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Re: Painting over celluloid
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2015, 11:25:40 PM »

Looks fine in the photo Theo  :D

Did you find the solvent in it bit or keyed into the pearloid surface ??

Bit of strategic gold leaf and you could start a JPSpecial line like they did the race cars..........
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Richard A
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