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Author Topic: Bass side vs Treble side  (Read 2032 times)

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Vallenato831

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Bass side vs Treble side
« on: April 02, 2015, 10:29:36 PM »

I'm having issues combining both sides to play at the same time.  My brain is having trouble telling each hand that it's suppose to do different things.  Are there any video tutorials you can recommend for me?  I have seen a few for vallenato on youtube.  But I've already practiced them and others are just too hard to do.  I'd like to buy a whole video set on just simple exercises on combining both sides. 
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malcolmbebb

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Re: Bass side vs Treble side
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2015, 10:33:13 PM »

You are not alone... took me ages, and I'm not there yet.

Very, very slowly. Ridiculously slowly. And be prepared to slow down some more.

Everyone has been there - stick at it. It does come.
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Andrew Wigglesworth

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Re: Bass side vs Treble side
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2015, 11:31:42 PM »

My experience is lost in the mists of time. That happens, it just starts to be normal.

malcolm is right. The only way is to practice it slowly, keep at it and it will eventually start to come. You just have to persuade your brain to rewire itself a bit.

Chris Ryall

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Re: Bass side vs Treble side
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2015, 08:11:21 AM »

it is probably less complicated, though more inticate than driving a car - steer one hand - jiggle gear another - one foot up - one down - all while checking mirror?

Basically there's a little "hard wired" computer back of our brain that learns complex patterened movements (cerebellum) and you need to programme that by repetition. Just grind away at it, slow as you like and break awkward bits into say 2 bar segments. Try to link these together toward the end of a practice even if you get it wrong

The other ingredient of the recipe is sleep. So often early on, something that was very hard previous afternoon seemed to work th next day. And I then watched my son do the same on guitar. ;) Practice, practice, physically, and try to make it into your paradigm of complete musical phrases, ideally the whole thing.

I'm not sure watching videos will do more than set you off on that journey, but we've all done it.
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malcolmbebb

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Re: Bass side vs Treble side
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2015, 09:02:26 AM »

it is probably less complicated, though more inticate than driving a car - steer one hand - jiggle gear another - one foot up - one down - all while checking mirror?

That is exactly the analogy that kept me going, when it all seemed like it was never going to happen. I reminded myself that I can do all the above while thinking about something else or holding a conversation (mind you, I was a bit younger when I started that particular learning path!).
I did get some tuition and support from Mel Biggs (Melonbox) to get me started, having left it rather late, otherwise it's patience, practice and build it up.
One day you find your left hand has joined in when hadn't asked it to...
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Bass side vs Treble side
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2015, 10:10:10 AM »

I kept to a simple tune and kept bashing away. It does come, and once the door opens, you're though and will have cracked it for all your playing.
Chris's analogy of driving a car is a good one. Bewildering to start with, but now we all jump in and drive off without thinking ' I need to depress the clutch, engage gear, signal, turn wheel etc'
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

george garside

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Re: Bass side vs Treble side
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2015, 10:28:03 AM »

I agree totally with Chris is that ''sleep'' is an important/essential ingredient.  It is almost as if the 'computor' in the back of the head needs a bit of 'down time'  to re programme itself.

On that basis don't slog away at it for hours - .  just little and often stopping/leaving it alone if its feeling like hard work and seeing what tomorrow or next week brings.

Another important thing is to decide what you want to do on the bass in the early stages as it is very easy to get bogged down  by eg  trying to play a decent rhythm whilst at the same time worrying about getting the best bass harmony or concentrating on half decent harmony in a rhythemless way.

Keep it as simple as possible in the early stages (i.e. the programming  of ''ambidextroxity ''into the brain).  I find that a simple rhythmic um pa using just 2 buttons and keeping time with the foot  -foot down bass - foot up chord- usually does the trick.

When you can do this  on auto pilot you are ready to look at more complicated bass stuff as the  ability to make your two sides function differently is starting to form

george
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Vallenato831

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Re: Bass side vs Treble side
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2015, 05:54:18 PM »

Thank you all for the help and advice!  This gets frustrating because I can play songs with the treble side alone, but as soon as I try to add the bass it all falls apart like a big crash. 

Here are a couple videos that show what I've got down already.  I have a bit more down than what shows in the 2 videos, but not much else really.   Just simple exercises on combining both sides.  That's pretty much it as of now.  So I need some guidance on what can I do next to help?  Just keep doing these same exercises or??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAA9t8cJ1Us

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgGgs0Nuao8

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Vallenato831

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Re: Bass side vs Treble side
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2015, 06:16:02 PM »

Ok now here is a great example of where I'm stuck and frustrated at.  I can do all of the exercises in the following video, except for the last one that begins at minute 4:56

That quick open/close bellow movements with keeping the bass in tune has me jacked up.  Bollocks like you guys say. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ykfYBId9C0
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Bass side vs Treble side
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2015, 09:06:35 PM »

Always (advice of most, but not all here) develop a tune chord seq first. Then fit in the notes. Because of melodeons magic construction they are nearly alwags there - OK you might have to go from pull to push D, of subst Em for G.

Right end first - might be the cleverest fingering ever, but the nice chords may not be technically there.
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squeezy

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Re: Bass side vs Treble side
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2015, 12:19:00 AM »

Always (advice of most, but not all here) develop a tune chord seq first. Then fit in the notes. Because of melodeons magic construction they are nearly alwags there - OK you might have to go from pull to push D, of subst Em for G.

Right end first - might be the cleverest fingering ever, but the nice chords may not be technically there.

Absolutely agree with this ^

I find that people have more trouble playing different rhythms with left and right hand than they do with different notes.  While a steady oom-pah under the melody with it's varying note lengths can sound mechanical and is not always desirable in the long-run ... it is invaluable to do it when you first start learning the melodeon to give you confidence in the separation of rhythm between the hands.

I've had great success teaching people by getting them to play push-pull scales at different multiples of speed against a steady left hand oom-pah in various rhythms (polka, jig, waltz) - it's the closest thing I come to using a purely educational exercise rather than a proper tune.
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KLR

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Re: Bass side vs Treble side
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2015, 06:07:23 PM »

There's also the curious phenomenon where if you visualize yourself doing something in your head you'll be more likely to succeed at doing it in real life.  So picture yourself playing the bass pattern you want to do and then try it for real, and see if that doesn't help. 
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Bass side vs Treble side
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2015, 07:43:20 PM »

Visualisation is so important and proved to be so in many sports.
Tumpty-ing is equally important in our world, tumpty the tune, hum it whistle it whatever is your preferred method. It helps to get the tune in the head, and of course, make sure you've got the basses and chords in this mental exercise . It can be done any where any time, and is a great exercise!
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Vallenato831

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Re: Bass side vs Treble side
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2015, 04:34:00 AM »

Thanks for the tips dudes.  I'm happy to say, that the hard exercise I had no chance at getting, I got it down about 60% of it.  Yesterday I had 0 shot, but for some reason today it became much easier.  I think like you guys said, to take a break and let the brain relax a bit.  Still dont have it down, but feel much better about my chances now.  And yes, I've been trying to visualize as well.  I practice bass notes all day, watching TV, on the steering wheel while driving etc..
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Bass side vs Treble side
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2015, 09:25:04 AM »

Ahhh sounds like the door's opening  (:)
Good luck
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!
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