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[Sandy Flett]

I am coming to the conclusion that for me the Oakwood Baffetti Binci 2-voice D/G is "the" melodeon for Morris. There are a couple of things I would like different to its standard spec, and would welcome any views/experiences to help me decide on these.

First, I have a strong preference for 4th button start. Might there be any down side to this that I have not thought of? I assume the Binci model has 19 treble buttons like my Carnival II; the latter is 3rd button start and I know that with the style and tunes I play I have never needed to make use of the two highest buttons.

Second, many years ago I sold a 3-row ADG Oakwood which I had had customised to include two bass stops (thirds and low note). When the buyer showed it to Ian Dedic, Ian was of the view that its bass end did not have the volume of his DG Oakwood, and Ian felt that this could well be due to power being lost (unavoidably?) via the 2 bass stops (hope I have got that right, Ian). Now, a powerful bass is very important for outdoors/morris, and my Carnival II does a pretty good job in that respect. But I note that the Binci model comes with a thirds stop as standard, and I am concerned that this may compromise the bass power to some extent. Anybody any experience of this? Can the Binci be ordered without the thirds stop?

[Anahata]

First, I have a strong preference for 4th button start. Might there be any down side to this that I have not thought of? I assume the Binci model has 19 treble buttons like my Carnival II; the latter is 3rd button start and I know that with the style and tunes I play I have never needed to make use of the two highest buttons.

I have a box that looks like the Oakwood-Baffetti Binci  but with different reeds; it's a prototype for the Binci Super/pro/whatever.
I very rarely need the top notes that are missing with 19 buttons and 4th button start, so agreed there.

Second, many years ago I sold a 3-row ADG Oakwood which I had had customised to include two bass stops (thirds and low note). When the buyer showed it to Ian Dedic, Ian was of the view that its bass end did not have the volume of his DG Oakwood, and Ian felt that this could well be due to power being lost (unavoidably?) via the 2 bass stops (hope I have got that right, Ian). Now, a powerful bass is very important for outdoors/morris, and my Carnival II does a pretty good job in that respect. But I note that the Binci model comes with a thirds stop as standard, and I am concerned that this may compromise the bass power to some extent. Anybody any experience of this? Can the Binci be ordered without the thirds stop?

Because my Oakwood/DB Binci isn't exactly the same, this is not a definitive answer, but the basses on mine (with a thirds stop) are louder than they are on my real Oakwood without a stop. There's more to it than that though: The basses on the DB have three reeds where the Oakwood has two, and the extra reeds in a higher octave help to make the bass notes loud and clear. I wouldn't call them deep, but the extra brightness makes the bass notes carry well. Ian's Oakwood also has three reeds on the bass notes and the basses are loud for the same reason.

Also, I assume the three row box in the above comparison had 12 basses, so I don't think it's fair to put the difference down to just a thirds stop when there's all the additional space compromise with the extra mechanism and reeds.

[Tufty]

I have the standard 2 row Binci and feel the left hand is one of the strongest points, nice and loud! I use it without thirds most of the time and would not want to be without the stop. For me I am quite happy with the 3rd button start as it makes it easier to get to the accidentals while standing up (I have short stumpy fingers  ). All in all I love it for morris work, loud and light. The three voice, which I also have, is a very different animal.

[Prestidigitator]

I have the standard 2 row Binci and feel the left hand is one of the strongest points, nice and loud! I use it without thirds most of the time and would not want to be without the stop. For me I am quite happy with the 3rd button start as it makes it easier to get to the accidentals while standing up (I have short stumpy fingers  ). All in all I love it for morris work, loud and light. The three voice, which I also have, is a very different animal.

Same here. I think it's a superb box, and although I too have short, stumpy (and now arthritic) fingers, I'd like a 4th start, as I've grown used to it. Of all the 2-voice boxes I've had in about 5 decades, I like it the best.

[IanD]

As Anahata implied, the basses on my Binci (3 reeds, with stop) are indeed louder than those on my Oakwood (3 reeds, no stop). Looking inside, the reeds on the Binci are a little bigger as are the reed blocks. The bass end would probably overpower the treble end if the treble end wasn't also very loud, in practice the two ends are very well balanced with a solid bass end underpinning a bright clear treble end. Volume is huge without having to thrash it, this combined with the relatively small size and lightness mean you can play it all day.

The only negative points are that it's not as comfortable to play (I had my Oakwood customised to improve this), the edge of the treble keyboard is too sharp and too close to the buttons, the bass end buttons are too close to the edge of the box. And the strap is too short, but this can be fixed with a bootlace.

4th or 3rd button start is a matter for personal preference, mine is 3rd button without accidentals (pointless for morris) but with a low C on pull on the lowest G note (Anahata's suggestion) and I don't miss any lower notes, but then I do use the high ones when playing parallel octaves.

[David J]

Agree with everything said above: the balance between bass and treble is excellent for outdoor use (and noisy sessions). I generally have 3rds in when playing for morris. Also 19 buttons is not an issue for me, even with a 4th button start, and you can play and carry it all day without fatigue. Hardly surprising it's become so popular with morris musicians!

Looking at the Jackstraws calendar, it doesn't seem our morris paths will cross very soon, but you are welcome to have an extended bash on mine when we do meet up.

[Sandy Flett]

Thanks for all the responses. It's great to have such a consensus.

Looking at the Jackstraws calendar, it doesn't seem our morris paths will cross very soon, but you are welcome to have an extended bash on mine when we do meet up.

That would be great, David, thank you.

[Helena Handcart]

It was David's box I fell in love with so it is entirely his fault that I *had* to buy a Binci 

Mine is the standard 3rd button start configuration and although I've had my other boxes converted to G scale 4th button I have no plans to do the same with the Binci - it's fine for morris tunes as it is.  Light, loud and you certainly can't accuse the basses of lacking in volume.

I'm not playing for morris much at the moment and was considering selling mine to help fund the Streb and Nuage but I just don't think I can part with it.

[Theo]

Do you really want a Nuage after having a Baffetti Binci? Sounds like a downgrade.

[Helena Handcart]

Do you really want a Nuage after having a Baffetti Binci? Sounds like a downgrade.

Nope I want them both - for different purposes.

[Phil B]

"Nope I want them both - for different purposes."  sounds good to me

[MartinW]

Nope I want them both - for different purposes.

I think that for many of us the second half of that statement is more self justification than truth.

[pikey]

First, I have a strong preference for 4th button start. Might there be any down side to this that I have not thought of? I assume the Binci model has 19 treble buttons like my Carnival II; the latter is 3rd button start and I know that with the style and tunes I play I have never needed to make use of the two highest buttons.

I have a box that looks like the Oakwood-Baffetti Binci  but with different reeds; it's a prototype for the Binci Super/pro/whatever.
I very rarely need the top notes that are missing with 19 buttons and 4th button start, so agreed there.

Second, many years ago I sold a 3-row ADG Oakwood which I had had customised to include two bass stops (thirds and low note). When the buyer showed it to Ian Dedic, Ian was of the view that its bass end did not have the volume of his DG Oakwood, and Ian felt that this could well be due to power being lost (unavoidably?) via the 2 bass stops (hope I have got that right, Ian). Now, a powerful bass is very important for outdoors/morris, and my Carnival II does a pretty good job in that respect. But I note that the Binci model comes with a thirds stop as standard, and I am concerned that this may compromise the bass power to some extent. Anybody any experience of this? Can the Binci be ordered without the thirds stop?

Because my Oakwood/DB Binci isn't exactly the same, this is not a definitive answer, but the basses on mine (with a thirds stop) are louder than they are on my real Oakwood without a stop. There's more to it than that though: The basses on the DB have three reeds where the Oakwood has two, and the extra reeds in a higher octave help to make the bass notes loud and clear. I wouldn't call them deep, but the extra brightness makes the bass notes carry well. Ian's Oakwood also has three reeds on the bass notes and the basses are loud for the same reason.

Also, I assume the three row box in the above comparison had 12 basses, so I don't think it's fair to put the difference down to just a thirds stop when there's all the additional space compromise with the extra mechanism and reeds.

I've got one of the other prototypes just like anahatas. 4th button start, and recently tweaked and balanced by Mike Rownotham. Highly recommended, he's transformed what was already a great box , balancing the volume between bass and treble, g row and d row, high end and low end. He is a genius with reeds (other tuners are of course available.....)

[IanD]

Nope I want them both - for different purposes.

I think that for many of us the second half of that statement is more self justification than truth.

Not necessarily. The Binci is indeed unbeatable for morris, but it's a bit of a thug as far as the sound is concerned. For playing in sessions and bands or accompanying songs I still prefer my Oakwood, the sound fits in better with other instruments especially fiddles and voice -- but then I'm lucky enough to have the choice of two splendid boxes (actually, more than two for even more different purposes...)

The other big advantage of the Binci over the Oakwood for morris is that if any disaster strikes or it's nicked I can go out and buy another one off the shelf -- or to be more accurate, Newmoon can ;-)

[MartinW]

I totally agree Ian, there are many good musical reasons for wanting different melodeons for different things. But for many of us 'Nope I want them both' is really the important bit. The second part is used to justify it to ourselves and/or our partners but it isn't always the real reason for acquiring more instruments.

Martin (whose wife says he has too many melodeons)

[Thrupenny Bit]

She has a point Martin, and in the event of a crisis, I could always give at least one of yours a good home.
( last time I remember that little one would have fitted in my car's boot just like it grew there.....).
Obviously, only to help out of course   
 
Q

[jez4]

i've got two 3 row oakwoods - one is Sandy's.  Like all Oakwoods, they came with Salpa reeds (I think I'm right in saying).  Mike Rowbotham doubled the volume of Sandy's box by doing about 20 small things to the left hand end - the biggest issues were lack of alignment in reedblock/sound board holes and chamber size i seem to recall.  When I can get hold of them both will be Binci'd.

[Sandy Flett]

Delighted to hear you got the bass end of the Oakwood improved; I always felt it was underpowered compared with the basses on the 2-row Oakwoods.

And it is great to hear from earlier posts that the Oakwood Baffetti's have good basses to start with and can even be improved upon if needed.

[IanD]

i've got two 3 row oakwoods - one is Sandy's.  Like all Oakwoods, they came with Salpa reeds (I think I'm right in saying).  Mike Rowbotham doubled the volume of Sandy's box by doing about 20 small things to the left hand end - the biggest issues were lack of alignment in reedblock/sound board holes and chamber size i seem to recall.  When I can get hold of them both will be Binci'd.

Do you mean just the bass end, or the treble end as well?

If the treble end and not just for Morris, bear my comments above in mind about the Oakwood vs. Baffetti Binci sound, a lot of which I suspect is the Binci reeds...

[Rog]

Curious to know how people have their DBBs voiced. I have an ordinary Dino Carnival and it's quite dry, but as time passes I'm finding I prefer a much wetter sound (and I'm not sure how fashionable that is). Last year at WOMAD there was a Sciicilian band with a Dino player, and it was on the musette end of wet and sounded great. I was pretty surprised actually, having never heard a Dino sounding like that, whatever reeds it has. I'm thinking of retuning mine to 25 cents or maybe more. But maybe you'd only want to do that with the standard Dino reeds, and not to the Binci reeds, a bit like covering an average steak with a fancy sauce, to disguise the taste.