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Author Topic: Double Stopping  (Read 5374 times)

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The Cidermaker

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Double Stopping
« on: May 09, 2009, 09:30:19 AM »


I have just been reading the notes on song accompaniment that were given to us at the Melodeons and More workshops in Suffolk. One Accompaniment technique listed is Double stopping. I have no idea what this is ( sounds painful to me) can somebody enlighten me?  many thanks.
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: Double Stopping
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2009, 10:07:53 AM »


I have just been reading the notes on song accompaniment that were given to us at the Melodeons and More workshops in Suffolk. One Accompaniment technique listed is Double stopping. I have no idea what this is ( sounds painful to me) can somebody enlighten me?  many thanks.
Double stopping usually refers to fiddle or other bowed string instrument technique, where you play two-note chords by drawing the bow across 2 strings. On the melodeon, this equates to playing chords on the right hand side by pressing two or more buttons at the same time.
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IanD

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Re: Double Stopping
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2009, 11:55:48 AM »


I have just been reading the notes on song accompaniment that were given to us at the Melodeons and More workshops in Suffolk. One Accompaniment technique listed is Double stopping. I have no idea what this is ( sounds painful to me) can somebody enlighten me?  many thanks.
Double stopping usually refers to fiddle or other bowed string instrument technique, where you play two-note chords by drawing the bow across 2 strings. On the melodeon, this equates to playing chords on the right hand side by pressing two or more buttons at the same time.

Or not just right-hand chords, but either a tune and a harmony line together -- usually a third or a fifth away -- or playing the tune in parallel octaves (upper and lower ranges of keyboard simultaneously).

All these techniques can add both extra impact/volume and interest to a tune, I use them a lot even for morris.

Ian
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ganderbox

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Re: Double Stopping
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2009, 01:52:08 PM »

This is something I'd like to do. It always seems to sound great when other people do it, but I'm never too sure when I try doing it myself.
Has anyone got any tips, or any tunes that are good to use to practice?
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Andy Next Tune

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Re: Double Stopping
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2009, 02:16:55 PM »

I seem to remember at another Mendlesham workshop a year or two earlier, Rees of this Parish suggested a good exercise was practising scales of two finger chords and octaves.
It trains the fingers!
Then you can take any simple tune such as Winster Gallop and experiment.

Andy
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Stiamh

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Re: Double Stopping
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2009, 04:24:25 PM »

Double stopping usually refers to fiddle or other bowed string instrument technique, where you play two-note chords by drawing the bow across 2 strings.

[Pedantic diversion of no consquence to this particular thread] As I never tire of pointing out (pr haven't yet), most people use the term incorrectly to mean simply playing two strings at once. Actually it means stopping two strings at once, that is, not just playing two strings but having your fingers down on both. In classical music it would generally refer to playing not the occasional two-note chord but whole  phrases with double stopping - something that nobody in folk music does, apart maybe from the likes of bluegrass fiddler Vassar Clements. I suppose the technique used by Donegal fiddlers when they hold down, say, a D on the G string with the fourth finger while they play a short phrase on the D string might qualify... [/diversion]

The Cidermaker

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Re: Double Stopping
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2009, 07:24:18 PM »


Many thanks to eveybody who replied.I shall now go and attempt to crack this technique. As they say, you learn something new every day especially on Melodeon Forum!


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george garside

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Re: Double Stopping
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2009, 08:42:24 PM »

'double stopping' or whatever you want to call it  is helped by getting away from the notion that a particular finger  should be used for a particular note.  The ability to play the 'tune note' with any finger  leaves 3 spares to play the extra 'double stop' note or notes. Such 'chords' can vary from a longish chord with 2 or more buttons held down for the duration of the 'tune note' to playing a short dou;ble stop or chord in the middle of the time alloted to the tune note.  i.e. start the tune note- a fraction of a second later ALSO press the 'double stop note' - release the 'double stop note - a fraction of a second later release the tune note.  This can be particularly effective if the double stop is played as a mere flick of the double stop note in the misssle of the tune note. In many waltz tunes with nice long notes it is easy to beat a rhythm with the double sstop note eg tap 123 on the double stop note whilst playing the tune note at its normal length. 

AS Andy has said take a simple tune like winster gallop ( or perhaps oH dear what can teh matter be as a waltz) & experiment.  Sor starters with winster gallop just  try   double stopping, flicking or whatever the low D at the same time as playing the G belonging to the tune.  Then try something sililar with other tunes you can play & not forgetting that the double stop note can be higher or lower than the tune note and does not need to be on the same row as the tune note./

george
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ganderbox

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Re: Double Stopping
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2009, 11:38:03 AM »

Such 'chords' can vary from a longish chord with 2 or more buttons held down for the duration of the 'tune note' to playing a short dou;ble stop or chord in the middle of the time alloted to the tune note.  i.e. start the tune note- a fraction of a second later ALSO press the 'double stop note' - release the 'double stop note - a fraction of a second later release the tune note.  This can be particularly effective if the double stop is played as a mere flick of the double stop note in the misssle of the tune note. In many waltz tunes with nice long notes it is easy to beat a rhythm with the double sstop note eg tap 123 on the double stop note whilst playing the tune note at its normal length. 


The secret is in the timing, then. It's not just a case of playing more than one note at once.
Thanks, George.
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Pauline from Cornwall

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Re: Double Stopping
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2009, 12:39:46 PM »

The secret is in the timing, then.

There you have the answer to everything about making music I think!
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Re: Double Stopping
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2009, 05:17:12 PM »

Double stopping usually refers to fiddle or other bowed string instrument technique
Also on electric (blues)guitar, where a bow usually isn't used. Unless it's an e-bow, but you can't use those on multiple strings.
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Falseknight

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Re: Double Stopping
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2009, 06:38:36 PM »

I thought all melodeon players did it naturally - it's so obvious, especially if you have moved over from playing frets.
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Re: Double Stopping
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2009, 09:42:32 PM »

I thought all melodeon players did it naturally - it's so obvious, especially if you have moved over from playing frets.

It's obvious how to play thirds, fifths, chords etc by hitting a succession of adjacent buttons, especially when you are belting out the tunes with lots of other players, but doing it with subtlety, as an ornamentation, needs a bit more thought.
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Pauline from Cornwall

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Steve_freereeder

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Re: Double Stopping
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2009, 12:21:42 AM »

It's obvious how to play thirds, fifths, chords etc by hitting a succession of adjacent buttons, especially when you are belting out the tunes with lots of other players, but doing it with subtlety, as an ornamentation, needs a bit more thought.
Others may have their own champions, but for me, Tony Hall is the real master of double-stopping on the RH side. If you are not already familiar with his playing, try to get hold of one of his CDs or even better, see him in a live concert.
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Re: Double Stopping
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2009, 06:43:29 AM »

Nip along to the Big Nick board. He has various exercises that are Cajun aimed, as they tend to use it third, fifth and octave doubling.

Brother Steve, sadly our favourite fiddler, Vassar Clements, no longer does double stop. He stopped in 2005. Love his philosophy, paraphrased, if he played the same solo twice, he'd failed.
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: Double Stopping
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2009, 08:44:04 AM »

Tony Hall on Youtube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3wD2XWTchw
It's sideways on and a bit difficult to see the RH, but just listen to that RH double stopping......

Another one here (at least it's the right way up :)  )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6BxXRyylhk
The double stopping is at it's best in the last time through the B-music - from about 45 secs timing.
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ganderbox

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Re: Double Stopping
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2009, 10:45:07 AM »

I didn't know Tony Hall played anything other than pokerworks.
His doublestopping is wonderful though..it's a pity you can't see his right hand a bit better on those videos.

I had a look at Big Nick's box lessons
http://www.bignick.net/BoxLessons/boxlesson_Index.htm
and it was very useful.

start the tune note- a fraction of a second later ALSO press the 'double stop note' - release the 'double stop note - a fraction of a second later release the tune note.  This can be particularly effective if the double stop is played as a mere flick of the double stop note in the misssle of the tune note. In many waltz tunes with nice long notes it is easy to beat a rhythm with the double sstop note eg tap 123 on the double stop note whilst playing the tune note at its normal length. 


george

I spent some time yesterday trying this, and found it was quite difficult keeping one finger down whilst playing the other notes...I kept wanting to lift it. Somehow you have to keep focussed on the tune note rather than the double stopped notes. Eventually I got the hang of it, and applied it to a French waltz I recently learned...probably over the top, but it was good practice!

Thanks for all the tips.

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Pauline from Cornwall

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Re: Double Stopping
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2009, 09:40:43 PM »

It's obvious how to play thirds, fifths, chords etc by hitting a succession of adjacent buttons, especially when you are belting out the tunes with lots of other players, but doing it with subtlety, as an ornamentation, needs a bit more thought.
Others may have their own champions, but for me, Tony Hall is the real master of double-stopping on the RH side. If you are not already familiar with his playing, try to get hold of one of his CDs or even better, see him in a live concert.

Never mind double stopping, try listening to his version of Flowers of Edinburgh -- at least three distinct things going on at once on the right hand towards the end, including tune and harmony line in different cross-rhythms.

If I hadn't seen him play live live several times I wouldn't have believed it was one melodeon playing. He's obviously got more than the normal number of fingers -- see his record covers if you don't believe me...

Ian
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Andy Next Tune

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Re: Double Stopping
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2009, 10:55:28 PM »

Absolutely Ian. I think Tony has his brain and fingers wired differently to the rest of the world! His playing style is un-paralleled and unique.

A fellow melodeon playing friend came across one of Tony's CDs very recently for the first time and was slightly dismisive of the sound. Then he tried to play along, and realised how much was going on each and every bar.

Tony is definitely a one-off. Who else plays concerts, such as recently at Mendlesham, using bailer twine as a 'strap' for one of his vintage Hohners.

'Field Vole Music' is still my definitive English Melodeon album. It go me hooked a significant number of decades ago, and set a standard for most of today's players.

Andy
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Re: Double Stopping
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2009, 11:14:36 PM »

Fieldvole Music
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