Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Theo]

What Tees is too modest to say is that with sufficient talent you can make great music on a one row. Those of us with less talent need the help of a more elaborate box! I play a 2.5 row.:-)

[george garside]

on the basis that  8 or even 12 push pull bass are not going to give perfect harmony without torturing yourself on the treble end there is a lot to be said for sticking with a light 2 row 8 bass box and thinking in terms of a choice of 3 ''effects''  from the bass. 

Harmony where it  is available, 'slightly' tuned  LIGHT percussion where it  isn't and not forgetting that certain parts of certain tunes can be greatly enhanced by not playing the bass!

george

[Anahata]

certain parts of certain tunes can be greatly enhanced by not playing the bass!

Less is more, again!

(I find certain tunes are greatly enhanced by not playing a single note of them, but maybe that's just me)

[squeezy]

(I find certain tunes are greatly enhanced by not playing a single note of them, but maybe that's just me)

Haha - brilliant!

[David J]

For the record, I am convinced that my bass layout is the best one ever and I wouldn't change anything about it.

I used to have a 12 bass Saltarelle, with the G and A reversals, and I thought that was a waste of buttons with the exception that (as CR mentions above) it allowed me a Gmin chord on pull.
I'd probably be just as happy if the extra 4 buttons (beyond standard 8 bass) were all bass notes without chords.

I have this layout, and I do agree that you could regard them as a waste, especially if you want to remain consistent in your playing of most D major tunes on an 8 bass instrument as well (which I try to do, to avoid too much brain-ache, and because I'm not Squeezy). Aside from playing tunes in Gm they are handy if you want pedal notes on G and A basses as well as D, and for some tunes where keeping (say) a drone chord under a note is nice and you'd have an unwelcome change in the bellows direction on a standard box which would prevent you doing this. But, after a year of playing this particular 12-bass layout, I'm coming to the conclusion that I could be quite happy with 8 basses plus F# and C# bass notes 

[TomBom]

Being quite happy with two basses I keep trying to emulate F#, G, A and C# basses with the low notes on the right hand side.

[911377brian]

One of the reasons I've stuck with one rows is that I can just about cope with four buttons on the left. Threads like this fill me with terror and a confirmation of my inadequacy as a player. I've recently ordered a Giordy from Rees and it's got eight buttons....EIGHT BUTTONS for Gods sake!

[malcolmbebb]

One of the reasons I've stuck with one rows is that I can just about cope with four buttons on the left. Threads like this fill me with terror and a confirmation of my inadequacy as a player. I've recently ordered a Giordy from Rees and it's got eight buttons....EIGHT BUTTONS for Gods sake!

Yes, but they are all quite small.

[Simon W]

on the basis that  8 or even 12 push pull bass are not going to give perfect harmony without torturing yourself on the treble end there is a lot to be said for sticking with a light 2 row 8 bass box and thinking in terms of a choice of 3 ''effects''  from the bass. 

Harmony where it  is available, 'slightly' tuned  LIGHT percussion where it  isn't and not forgetting that certain parts of certain tunes can be greatly enhanced by not playing the bass!

george

Well put George!

Simon

[Chris Ryall]

E/F    C/C   c5/c5  B/E   b5/e5  D#/G#
Bb/F#  G/D  g5/d5  D/A  d5/a5   F#/C#

*What! no Eb?  . There are also the "crossed" chords, generally equating to simple chord extensions. The 5th note gives very colour to chords (unless diminished) so «chez Ukebert» you can rebase those 1+5 chord on a differend bass (notes from your scale)

  E5/C = CE_B = C maj 7
  B5/G = GB_F# = G maj 7 we can all do these ones
  A5/F =  FA_E =  F maj 7,  nice playing in C (or F)
  A5/F# = F# min7 - great against "built in" F#  blues scale
  G5/E = EG_D = Em7, Ok that's on push, you can't have everything …

Loads more … basically any "in scale" (importantly) chord played against any "in scale" bass may give something useful,  and it's a matter of what sounds nice against tune.

Another, actually easy, technique is to do a bass run against held chord. I've used Em/E…D…C (pull) resolving to B for so long that it's a bit cliche, but loads more such runs with this sort of bass. I do have Eb and like to sing in Bb. Presently having great fun trying Bb, Eb, F, G extra pull basses against Eb, F, and the "standard set" C D and A chords; also the last 3 as basses the  "extras"  chords. They all sound OK , but you have to experiment for any given song 

[ed] *whoops, just spotted it … even more fun

[Owen Woods]

I did (briefly) think about tuning this box to an unequal temperament... in which case the distinction between D# and Eb would be pertinent. As it is though...

It is labelled D# because that is how I use it.

[butimba]

Integral to this design though is the fact that the chords are thirdless and that you can take the bass out of the chord. The net result is that the bassless bass can blend beautifully with the chord and indeed with each other, meaning that you can play chords on the bass. This greatly expands the versatility of the instrument.

Still hoping someone can explain this to me...?

[Cooper]

Integral to this design though is the fact that the chords are thirdless and that you can take the bass out of the chord. The net result is that the bassless bass can blend beautifully with the chord and indeed with each other, meaning that you can play chords on the bass. This greatly expands the versatility of the instrument.

Still hoping someone can explain this to me...?

I think it means:
if your chord consist of C en G, and you have an E-bass which you can use in the same octave, you can play an CEG chord. (etc, to make all the nice chords as well, like sus, and M7 etc.)
W

[Anahata]

Still hoping someone can explain this to me...?

Well, I'm guessing a bit here, but if you have a stop to take out the lowest pitch reed from the bass notes, then you are left with two reeds (or possibly just one) which is at a similar pitch to the reeds that sound when you press a chord button. So (to take a simple example) the 'chord button' associated with C is a bare fifth, but you can make it into a full C major chord by pressing an E bass button with it, or a C minor chord by pressing an Eflat bass with it.... and so on. Or you can make even more foreign chords by pressing combinations of bass notes together.

The point is that if you do that with normal bass notes, the extra low reeds make the result sound very muddy.

The downside is that you don't get any real low bass 'oomph'  with the low reeds stopped out.

PS: OK, Wouter has summarized it very well, but I'm going to let this post go anyway.

[Owen Woods]

Exactly And if I want a punchy bass then I can switch back in the low reed, which is punchy enough for almost anyone I would think!

[Broadland Boy]

Less is more, again!
(I find certain tunes are greatly enhanced by not playing a single note of them, but maybe that's just me)

Anahata, the Homeopathic Melodeonist 

[Chris Ryall]

Or, put another way … silence is the least used note in music?

As for the advantage of "thirds out" - see the worked examples above. B/G is standard jazz notation for a B triplet (BD#F#) played on a G bass, in essence re-voicing the chord to a G tonic. With me so far?

Standard chords take 1,3,5,7th notes from their scale. On bass G that's GBD#F#

But a G, or Gmaj7 for that matter's "5" note is D, not D# If you try this "crossed chord" on 3 note voicing the chord sounds tense. It's Gmaj7,#5, a standard jazzer's chord (lydian augmented) but not exactly melodeon friendly?

Depending on the triplet you revoice that 5th may come true, #5, or occasionally b5 if the triplet was a minor. As I say above, the 5th brings very little emotional colour to a chord until we go to jazzer's stuff. That revoiced 5 was originally 3rd. So thirdless chords completely avoid any wrong 5th issue 

i find this a somehow satisfying, practical and typically "melodeonic" solution In the worked examples I've put in the missing 3rd=>5th as an underbar "_". while it's possible to calculate these … in practice stick to scale notes and leave 3rds out always works.

[edit][advert] Nice, though brief section showing this sort of "mucking about" on this month's «Air et Geste» DVD. Stef playing basses against AFAIR right end chords. But it comes to the same thing … [/advert]

[butimba]

Ok. Got it now. Thanks Anahata and Cooper for explaining 

(I've been thinking about seeing if I can get a stop to take out the low reed on my bass just so it's not always so overpowering, but I hadn't considered this might be another good use for it. Hmm...)