Melodeon.net Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to the new melodeon.net forum

Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Down

Author Topic: file formats for attachments  (Read 5475 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

GBbox

  • Good talker
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 73
Re: file formats for attachments
« Reply #40 on: June 17, 2015, 11:08:26 PM »

Can you please tell me how many abc fils of Italian tunes uploaded by italian musicians are currently available on the web?

Logged

Jack Campin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 764
    • Jack Campin's Home Page
Re: file formats for attachments
« Reply #41 on: June 17, 2015, 11:44:49 PM »

Not enough.  I have yet to see an Italian tune that would be a problem for ABC.  The uploader of this one seems to be Austrian, dunno who did the transcription:

http://members.yline.com/~zeiler1/abc/czital.abc

You do rather better looking for Chinese music transcribed by a German:

https://github.com/bewest/music21-bewest.clone/blob/master/music21/corpus/essenFolksong/han1.abc
https://github.com/bewest/music21-bewest.clone/blob/master/music21/corpus/essenFolksong/han2.abc

BTW I have a rather large file of jazz leadsheets in ABC which demonstrate how far beyond folk you can go.  But they're all copyright and have never been publicly available.
Logged
http://www.campin.me.uk/

I can't figure out how to quit but I will no longer check this group and have deleted all shortcuts to it.

Chris Brimley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1864
Re: file formats for attachments
« Reply #42 on: June 17, 2015, 11:53:32 PM »

Several comments:

Thanks Theo for the change, and for the info re the MuseScore upload/download facility, which I hadn't noticed.

Re the many comments about different file sizes, something doesn't quite compute for me - it seems to have been the view that there isn't a lot of difference between the output for different systems, so it would follow that some of them must be in very inefficient formats, to need such big files.  Or are there perhaps a lot of other features in these big files that we haven't discussed?

GBbox has asked about numbers of ABC users in Italy.  (Thanks Gianni for your support on the broadening communication issue, btw.)  The comparison may be too obvious to mention, but to give some global context in terms of scorewriting software, I see that Sibelius, the claimed largest, boasts 'hundreds of thousands of users' in '100 countries'.  Its library of purchasable scores runs to 925,000 alone, and there are no doubt also huge numbers of their scores around somewhere on the web, produced by both amateur and professional users.

Howard has mentioned ways of converting MusicXML to ABC, which would presumably therefore allow the conversion of a .mscz file to ABC, and indeed conversion to ABC of any other stave notation software that exports to the standard MusicXML.  Can you point me in the right direction for this, Howard?
Logged

Howard Jones

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 772
Re: file formats for attachments
« Reply #43 on: June 17, 2015, 11:54:49 PM »

Pete, your Belgian tune collection is a slightly different situation where it makes sense to save the files elsewhere and create links to them (although I note that some people had trouble with the links, so this isn't a perfect solution).  Pasting the entire file as text would be a bit unwieldy.  However a lot of tune shares are of individual tunes which can very easily be handled within the forum. 

It also illustrates an advantage of ABC, that an entire collection can be contained in a single file.  Unless I have misunderstood, to do this in other formats would require separate files for each tune.

Howard Jones

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 772
Re: file formats for attachments
« Reply #44 on: June 18, 2015, 12:01:07 AM »

Chris, EasyABC allows import of of .xml. midi and Noteworthy files.  It doesn't appear to support .mscz directly but using one of these other formats should allow you to convert.  It also has some other nice features, including adding markings from a menu, which you might feel more at home with than direct text entry.

http://www.nilsliberg.se/ksp/easyabc/

Anahata

  • This mind intentionally left blank
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4889
  • Oakwood D/G, C/F Club, 1-rows in C,D,G
    • Treewind Music
Re: file formats for attachments
« Reply #45 on: June 18, 2015, 12:04:13 AM »

Re storage efficiency: XML formats are very inefficient but compressible, because they typically contain lots of instances of elements with the same name.
ABC is the only one designed for manual input of the code directly, and is therefore very terse.
Logged
I'm a melodeon player. What's your excuse?
Music recording and web hosting: www.treewind.co.uk
Mary Humphreys and Anahata: www.maryanahata.co.uk
Ceilidh bands: www.fourhandband.co.uk www.barleycoteband.co.uk

Chris Brimley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1864
Re: file formats for attachments
« Reply #46 on: June 18, 2015, 12:10:41 AM »

Quote
Unless I have misunderstood, to do this in other formats would require separate files for each tune.

I think there's at least two ways in MuseScore:  you could use page breaks between separate scores, with intermediate text for separate sub-titles.  Or there's an Album function, which I think does it more comprehensively, though I've never used it.

Thanks also Howard for the info on EasyABC, I'll check it out.
Logged

Chris Brimley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1864
Re: file formats for attachments
« Reply #47 on: June 18, 2015, 12:16:32 AM »

Quote
XML formats are very inefficient but compressible

Thanks for that - Yes, I note that MuseScore says it can convert to a Compressed MusicXML, but mentions that it is less widely used in other platforms than is Music XML. 

I haven't checked how differently the sizes turn out to be in practice.
Logged

TomBom

  • Respected Sage
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 465
Re: file formats for attachments
« Reply #48 on: June 18, 2015, 12:21:40 AM »

Can you please tell me how many abc fils of Italian tunes uploaded by italian musicians are currently available on the web?
The same is true for Austrian, Swiss, Polish, Slovakian, Slovenian, Spanish, German ... tunes.
Logged

Jack Campin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 764
    • Jack Campin's Home Page
Re: file formats for attachments
« Reply #49 on: June 18, 2015, 12:34:27 AM »

I asked what free stuff in MuseScore was out there that a melodeon player might want to use, and Theo found this:

https://musescore.com/sheetmusic

It has no genre filter, and no category for "melodeon" or "diatonic accordion".  So I looked at what they had for bagpipe, figuring that most of that would have to be folk music.  Who knows, maybe they might have something like my transcription of the collected public domain work of GS MacLennan.  There's stacks of free old bagpipe music at http://www.ceolsean.net/ that any interested person could transcribe.

They haven't.  What a pile of dogshit.  There is absolutely NOTHING there that a player of any kind of real bagpipe would want to look at.

So, let's try "accordion".  You get a few real accordion pieces in there, but there is a systematic problem with the site: any piece arranged by a self-indulgent syntho-orchestrator will get all of its MIDI instruments listed in the index - most of the "accordion" entries were never intended to be played by a human accordionist.  ("Bagpipe" has it worse, since the system puts no constraints on playable range).  Is a nine-part arrangement of "Wonderwall" including "choir aahs" likely as real accordion repertoire?  This is one of the few genuine ones:

https://musescore.com/user/26/scores/618

but it uses nothing you couldn't write in ABC, the playback sound is foul, and it seems to be completely random whether the player repeats a section as notated or not.  (It's also been composed on the piano - you don't do parallel-octave bass runs on a Stradella bass).

So, where is all this material Chris want to attach going to come from?  Who's writing it?
« Last Edit: June 18, 2015, 12:38:32 AM by Jack Campin »
Logged
http://www.campin.me.uk/

I can't figure out how to quit but I will no longer check this group and have deleted all shortcuts to it.

Howard Jones

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 772
Re: file formats for attachments
« Reply #50 on: June 18, 2015, 09:03:06 AM »

JC's ABC Tunefinder will search the web for tunes.  Although the default search is "Title", this actually searches all the index fields.  Assuming the transcriber has completed the O: field for geographical origin, or otherwise made a note in an index field, the search should find it.  However this is optional information which often won't be recorded.

Of course this is language-sensitive.  A search on "Italy" turned up 534 matches, but you would also need to search on "Italia" and other non-English alternatives to pick transcriptions by Italians and other nationalities.

http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/cgi/abc/tunefind

Chris Ryall

  • "doc 3-row"
  • French Interpreter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8043
  • Wirral UK
    • Chris Ryall
Re: file formats for attachments
« Reply #51 on: June 18, 2015, 09:15:34 AM »

Jack, I'd suggest that melnet might be big enough to develop its own arhive of music. We already have most of tunes of the month in ABC, albeit not all together. Looks that MusicXML-ing of that might be semi-automated. Not my mission in life, but I'm often amazed at what people will do de bono in this respect. Lester has much of the morris tradition covered. We have loads of other specialists here. One of the pleasures of this group is the surprises in thsi respect

Sorry to here about bagpipe music, yes, it is a genre of it's own, but that is Bagsoc business, not ours. As for "accordion" music - is it an entity? I'd say melodeon music is, mainly due to diatonic nature, and push-pull.
Logged
  _       _    _      _ 

Theo

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11170
  • Hohner Club Too
    • The Box Place
Re: file formats for attachments
« Reply #52 on: June 18, 2015, 10:05:37 AM »

We are well off topic now, and I think the original discussion has reached some kind of conclusion
Logged
Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

Proprietor of The Box Place for melodeon and concertina sales and service.
Follow me on Twitter and Facebook for stock updates.
Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Up
 


Melodeon.net - (c) Theo Gibb; Clive Williams 2010. The access and use of this website and forum featuring these terms and conditions constitutes your acceptance of these terms and conditions.