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Author Topic: What's the english word for that ornament ?  (Read 3255 times)

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-Y-

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What's the english word for that ornament ?
« on: June 21, 2015, 10:16:47 AM »

Hello all,

Yann-Fañch Perroches plan to release some new free tabs on his website anytime soon (www.perroches.com), but he was wondering how to translate the ornament picotage in English. That's when you constantly play the same low (or high) note between the notes of the melody, just like bagpipes players would do. Here is an example on the tune McDonald's March/Reel de Jos Cormier, with the low A in the third part 



I've been told that maybe that's also called picotage in English, but can anyone confirm what's the most typical name for that ornament ?

Thanks in advance !

Roger Howard

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Re: What's the english word for that ornament ?
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2015, 11:18:21 AM »

Picoter usually means to "pick" or "peck" at something, so picotage is the action of so doing.

For its use in English as a piping term, see an earlier thread: http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,13555.msg167299.html#msg167299.

Hope that helps!  (:)

Roger
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Lester

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Re: What's the english word for that ornament ?
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2015, 11:24:05 AM »

Sounds like what I would refer to as a pedal note, as in Sir Sidney Smiths March. Can't do a link as I'm on my phone.

Theo

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Re: What's the english word for that ornament ?
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2015, 11:29:35 AM »

Sounds like what I would refer to as a pedal note, as in Sir Sidney Smiths March. Can't do a link as I'm on my phone.

That's what I thought Lester,  but the attached notation doesn't show on the phone, what that shows I would also call a cut. Not sure if the OP attached the correct page of notation, it doesn't seem to match his description.
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Johnniez

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Re: What's the english word for that ornament ?
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2015, 11:38:42 AM »

Those little notes tied to the larger  notes are called 'Grace Notes' in the piping world. I play bagpipes and when I come across similar as in your score I would play a 'Grace Note'

It actually goes back to the renaissance period and is used in many classical music specially in the Baroque period.
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-Y-

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Re: What's the english word for that ornament ?
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2015, 11:49:02 AM »

Thanks all for your answers.

Johnniez: Sorry for the mistake, but I was referring to the As in the third part that are played between the higher notes (a g #f e) and not these little tied to larger ones. I believe these are also called cuts, right ?

arty

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Re: What's the english word for that ornament ?
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2015, 12:00:19 PM »

I think those 'A's are called 'grace notes'.
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-Y-

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Re: What's the english word for that ornament ?
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2015, 12:37:44 PM »

btw, Lester and Theo I'm exactly referring to what Lester pointed out in Sir Sidney Smiths March :

http://lesters-tune-a-day.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/tune-185-sir-sidney-smiths-march.html

Theo

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Re: What's the english word for that ornament ?
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2015, 12:41:37 PM »

Pedal notes
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GBbox

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Re: What's the english word for that ornament ?
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2015, 01:12:16 PM »

The definiton of the picotage given by daoudonek is correct, the picotage is the interpolation of a note - usually a low one - among the notes of the melody.

A quote fome Yann Dour's Accordéon Ditonique Mèthode compléte Vol. I: Cette technique, issue du jeu des cornamuses est très accodreonistique. Il s'agit de ra une note (toujour le même) sur le contre-temps, entre les notes de la mélodie qui se trouvent sur le temps.

Unfotunately the way Yann has notated the scottish he uses to demonstrate the picotage is confusing, as it contains a 4/4 with an extra 1/8 note.

Anyway, beyond considering it a variation rather than an embellishment , since it's peculiar to the French musical tradition I would let it untranslated. At least, that's what do the Italian musicians that play French music.

I don't know it the picotage it's adopted in Cape Breton, and if there the term is in use. That would be something I've never heard about, but I can't exclude it.

Yet in the example score posted by daoudonek I can't see a real example of picotage. If it was , the low a notes should appear four times each bar, with four different notes between each of them. Looking at the score, I just see a few bar insisting mainly in a repeated low a note. Something, by the way, that would be impossible to replicate on an open chanter  pipe, as most of the French bagpipes are, since repeating the same note would imply the interpolation a further grace note, ending up with a different effect than the that obtained with the picotage.

Maybe an audio sample would show that the tune, played on the melodoen, reminds the picotage, but I doubt that striclty speaking it could be defined as such.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2015, 01:13:47 PM by GBbox »
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-Y-

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Re: What's the english word for that ornament ?
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2015, 01:28:48 PM »

Maybe the example (Jos Cormier) was not the most clear, given that the main notes of the tune (a g #f e) are are off-beat and the As are there to fill the blank, so to speak. However, picotage would not imply necessarily that you'd have to have 4 times the As per bar.

GBbox

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Re: What's the english word for that ornament ?
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2015, 02:47:54 PM »

Maybe the example (Jos Cormier) was not the most clear, given that the main notes of the tune (a g #f e) are are off-beat and the As are there to fill the blank, so to speak. However, picotage would not imply necessarily that you'd have to have 4 times the As per bar.
[/quote

Sorry, but I can't understand what you mean. The tune is in 2/2, than a bar with picotage should be: melody note (1/8), interpolated note (1/8),  melody note (1/8), interpolated note (1/8),  melody note (1/8), interpolated note (1/8),   melody note (1/8), interpolated note (1/8). Four notes of the melody, on the beats, four interpolated low As. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a picotage.
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-Y-

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Re: What's the english word for that ornament ?
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2015, 03:02:03 PM »

Sorry if I'm unclear. I totally got that from your post, however I don't have a definition of picotage as strict as yours. Regarding Jos Cormier, what I meant was that here the melody has fewer notes that usual (a g #f e) and are not all on the beat contrary to what would be theoretically needed by the definition you give. However the effect is the same, that is to produce an effect of drone or pedal, with a somewhat rhythmical imprint. It just so happens that the beginning of the melody of the third part is very unusual, hence the bad choice as an example, but still in my mind an example of pedal note.

Cooper

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Re: What's the english word for that ornament ?
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2015, 06:32:23 PM »

i just use the word picotage, but that could be because i play French-style bagpipes as well,...
W
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