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Author Topic: The history and evolution of diatonic keyboards  (Read 14044 times)

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oggiesnr

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Re: The history and evolution of diatonic keyboards
« Reply #80 on: July 13, 2015, 07:46:42 PM »

As far as I can find (I've time on my hands as I'm sat/laid here with my foot elevated) prior to 1822 everything is very fuzzy.  There is basically one set of information of which the following is typical that has been rehashed in slightly different forms but with no supporting evidence -

"The Melodeon was developed from the Harmonica and other primitive free reed instruments early in the 19th century, in the border area between Saxony and Bohemia. The Abbe Georg Josef Vogler had a role in introducing the concept of the free reed principle to Europe and by his death in 1814 many prototype instruments were being made with a variety of names and shapes. The earliest instrument is said to be the Aeolidicon made by Eisenach in Hamburg in 1800. The Harmonica itself is said to have been perfected by Buschmann in 1821."

I cannot find any contemporary documentation or a referenced piece of research to take it any further backwards with any degree of confidence.

Steve
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Chris Ryall

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Re: The history and evolution of diatonic keyboards
« Reply #81 on: July 13, 2015, 07:56:50 PM »

.
      got an attributable source for that quotation?
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Chris Ryall

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Re: The history and evolution of diatonic keyboards
« Reply #82 on: July 13, 2015, 08:09:07 PM »

To me, it doesn't matter much whether an instrument is described as diatonic or chromatic. Is a D/G instrument with a row of accidentals (or even with a few accidentals at the chin end) diatonic or chromatic? Who cares?

It is the bisonoricity of the melodeon that gives it that distinctive exciting sound that makes you want to dance, not whether it is diatonic or chromatic. It is also its bisonoricity (a lovely word!) that, for me, is the key distinguishing feature that sets the melodeon apart from the piano accordion and the CBA

oooh - careful there Bob. There are 2 very similar words in there, which had confused me in the past.

 "bisonoric" = the reed makes a different note on push and pull
                      those might be Bb and F# if you wanted!

 "diatonic" = mappable to white notes of a piano, or any other major scale preferred

the "bounce" of a diatonic melodeon certainly gains a lot from bisonoric buttons, but the reason that works so well as music, and especially dance music is that the rows respect the diatonic scale.

And a D/G/accs remains fundamentally diatonic (twice over) and therein much of its strength. I guess you wouldn't be very happy with a D/E harmonic minor/accs box, as is common in the Isère valley?
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oggiesnr

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Re: The history and evolution of diatonic keyboards
« Reply #83 on: July 13, 2015, 08:29:25 PM »

.
      got an attributable source for that quotation?

That one's from FARNE, an almost identical quote is on Hobgoblin's intro to squeezeboxes, ditto Rattlejag Morris.  This is a more comprehensive version but still low on detailed info http://www.hmtrad.com/sbx-info/sbx-name.html

Steve
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Baron Collins-Hill

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Re: The history and evolution of diatonic keyboards
« Reply #84 on: July 13, 2015, 08:54:42 PM »

D/E harmonic minor/accs box, as is common in the Isère valley?

I would love more info on this trend (and a layout diagram if you've got one)!

Perhaps thread drift though (except for the evolution bit)...

Thanks,
Baron
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Bob Ellis

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Re: The history and evolution of diatonic keyboards
« Reply #85 on: July 13, 2015, 08:57:15 PM »

I agree with you, Chris, and I was using the terms bisonoric and diatonic exactly as you have described them.

My point was that I believe it to be the bisonoricity of the melodeon rather than its diatonicity that gives the instrument its distinctive bounce. On your C#/D/G boxes and my D/G/acc. boxes, we can both play a complete scale in D and G either in the typical melodeon push-pull manner by playing the scale along the row or or we can the rows to play all the notes in the same direction. When we play along the row, we get a bouncier scale (or tune) than when we play the notes in the same direction by crossing the rows. While I have little experience with concertinas, chromatic button accordions, piano accordions and what-have-you, I believe it to be true that those free-reed instruments that are bisonoric tend to impart 'bounce' into a tune more easily than those that are unisonoric, although I am willing to be corrected by those with wider experience of unisonoric instruments.

I recognise that the degree of 'bounce' imparted is controlled by the bellows and that a good musician can make a unisonoric instrument sound as bouncy as one that is bisonoric, but I would contend that it is easier to impart 'bounce' into a tune on a bisonoric than on a unisonoric instrument and that it is this characteristic, to a greater extent than its diatonicity, that contributes most to the distinctive sound that melodeons make.
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Chris Ryall

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Re: The history and evolution of diatonic keyboards
« Reply #86 on: July 13, 2015, 09:33:17 PM »

[Off topic]
  Grenoble layout in G/Amharm/accs …  transposable toD/Em/accs, and surprisingly popular in France and Low Countries. Only its G row is diatonic
[/Off topic]
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Jack Campin

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Re: The history and evolution of diatonic keyboards
« Reply #87 on: July 13, 2015, 09:46:00 PM »

Anybody tried a D misheberach/G harmonic minor layout for klezmer?
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Chris Ryall

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Re: The history and evolution of diatonic keyboards
« Reply #88 on: July 13, 2015, 09:57:18 PM »

No, but it looks very promissing
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oggiesnr

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Re: The history and evolution of diatonic keyboards
« Reply #89 on: July 13, 2015, 10:46:32 PM »

My point was that I believe it to be the bisonoricity of the melodeon rather than its diatonicity that gives the instrument its distinctive bounce.

I would partially disagree.  It is also the layout of the right hand on a single or two row box, with the major chord and triads in the same direction, that makes it bounce.  B/C/C# boxes, bandoneons are equally bisonoric but rarely bounce.  Part of this is the type of music we play on our boxes.  Much of the traditional canon makes use of a simple 3 chord progression which the notes and chords easily fit.  When you play music like, say, Andy Cutting's then you lose this bounce, you're playing across the box to make the chords fit, it no longer holds together.  Doesn't make it any less valid but it doesn't have the same bounce as a morris jig because the bellows aren't bouncing.

Steve
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Anahata

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Re: The history and evolution of diatonic keyboards
« Reply #90 on: July 13, 2015, 10:49:42 PM »

Andy Cutting himself switches to a one-row when he really wants the music to bounce!
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Theo

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Re: The history and evolution of diatonic keyboards
« Reply #91 on: July 13, 2015, 11:56:52 PM »

I think it's a combination of the box and the way we learn.  With a bisonoric box you are forced from the start to think about the bellows changing direction from the very first moment you learn to play and you have to keep thinking about the bellows a the time as you progress.  So bellows movement are integral to how you learn.  In contrast when learning a unisonoric box it is quite possible to play a correct sequence of notes without having to think of the bellows except when you run out of air.  As a consequence it is quite possible for the unisonoric player to get well into the learning process without ever having to think about the effect of bellows movement on musical phrasing or rhythmic emphasis.  Good unisonoric players do learn to use the bellows musically, but the instrument does not force the player to think about the bellows. 
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Gary P Chapin

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Re: The history and evolution of diatonic keyboards
« Reply #92 on: July 14, 2015, 03:49:30 AM »

I haven't seen anyone mention Gorka Hermosa's book on the organology of free reed instruments, The Accordion in the 19th Century. If I missed it, I apologize.

I write about it here

http://accordeonaire.blogspot.com/2013/03/accordion-in-19th-century-free-download.html

And the PDF is freely available here

http://gorkahermosa.com/web/img/publicaciones/Hermosa%20-%20The%20accordion%20in%20the%2019th.%20century.pdf
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Chris Ryall

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Re: The history and evolution of diatonic keyboards
« Reply #93 on: July 14, 2015, 10:43:26 AM »

It always depends on what style you play, and here we have a nice example of a music style being brought into being be the organology of its instument (as frankly so many are)?  Elsewhere within melodeonism I'd also offer various 1-row traditions, in particular E Anglia, Québecoise, and 'Cajun. All very difficult to achieve on more complex instruments.

Came across this nice example of 'non bounce' play while browsing youtube … yes it is a diatonic machine, albeit played in harmonic minor! (Ruchenitsa rhythm)?
« Last Edit: July 14, 2015, 10:48:27 AM by Chris Ryall »
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Jack Campin

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Re: The history and evolution of diatonic keyboards
« Reply #94 on: July 14, 2015, 01:58:27 PM »

It occurred to me that my suggestion for a bisonoric 2-row klezmer layout could be improved a bit.

One row: D misheberach but with a sharpened seventh (in practice this degree is usually mutable between sharp and natural, the original form of misheberach has it natural but that is not very common now). So: D/E, F/G#, A/B, D/C#.

The other row: D freygish, by far the commonest scale in klezmer.  D/Eb, F#/G, A/Bb, D/C.

This puts all 12 chromatic degrees into 2 rows, gets the commonest scale on one row and one of the next commonest almost there.  And the D and A are replicated, which is probably handy given that the commonest klezmer keys are based on D.

Makes playing in G major (also common) a bit of an adventure, though.

Comments?
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Chris Ryall

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Re: The history and evolution of diatonic keyboards
« Reply #95 on: July 14, 2015, 02:06:43 PM »

Posted my kniri Blues box idea before but seems apposite to repeat it here
[tone tone semitone] forever so not 'diatonic' either …


       ºG/ºA♭  ¹B♭/¹C  ¹C♯/¹E♭  ¹F/¹F♯  ¹A♭/²B♭      ²B/²C♯    ²E♭/E     ²F♯/²A♭   ³A/³B     ³C♯/³D
ºE♭/ºF♯   ºG/¹A    ¹B/¹C     ¹D/¹E     ¹F/¹G       ²A/²B♭      ²C/²D    ²E♭/²F   ²G/²A♭   ³B♭/³C   ³D♭/³E♭

Emphasise - still untested - hope to get it next month some time :|glug
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Chris Brimley

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Re: The history and evolution of diatonic keyboards
« Reply #96 on: July 16, 2015, 08:27:04 AM »

Wow, you're going to need a flexible brain for that one, Chris - Good luck with it!
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Chris Ryall

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Re: The history and evolution of diatonic keyboards
« Reply #97 on: July 16, 2015, 08:48:48 AM »

Au contraire, old son. I'll be taking it to Adderbury when we meet in October

You are gonna need a flexible brain  >:E
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