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[Howie]

i have been asked to accompany a group of singers who are singing  a song in the key of F. i have a DG box.i don't think this is possible.what are my options please ?

[Marje]

i have been asked to accompany a group of singers who are singing  a song in the key of F. i have a DG box.i don't think this is possible.what are my options please ?

Without accidentals, you have neither an F note nor a chord in the key of F. Even with accidentals  of F natural and  B flat,  you are still lacking most of the appropriate basses. Unless your singers can rack it up a tone and sing in G, it's not possible to make a decent job of this.

[Chris Ryall]

Virtually no bass, unless it's a club system. You can't do a sensible scale as F is not a mode of either D or G (both have their F note sharp)

In the past I've joined (ie in sessions) in with partial chords, and for that you probably need your F accidental on pull, ideally Bb too. Then rt hand F,A,C  pull is your home chord (C bass "tollerated") and either EGC pull as your dominant, same bass. this is where the Bb sounds nice. The IV chord in F music is Bb, and that worked best for me as simple a finger across Bb and F accidentals (pull chez moi). Other notes in the FGABbCDE F scale might also work depending on song with "sus" effect so identify all those notes both way if you can and experiment: trust your ear.

That's it technically, really. http://chrisryall.net/chords/ can help in finding chords on own kit. But if you "think rhythm" and stay to scale notes … it's amazing how far you can fake it within a group.

Marge's suggestion of getting them into G is much less work 

[george garside]

I agree that in general terms  eg playing the tune and appropraiate bass it I neigh on impossible on a standard DG box so I wouldn't worry about it!

alternatives are

get the singers to sing in a key you can manage

buy a cheap F mouthie to do the job -its just the same as playing on the row on a box

borrow an F box

The semitone 2 row boxes eg BC  are much better aat producing a range of keys but usually with not much in the way of bass  and the 3 row semitone with stradella bass can  do a proper job in most keys

george

[John MacKenzie (Cugiok)]

There's no F in box.

John

[baz parkes]

Whereabouts are you?

Many D/Gers also have a C/F, and you may be able to borrow one...

otherwise, as others have said, put a capo on the vocalists..

[boxer]

If you're going to do a lot more of this kind of thing, consider getting a B/C box which is fully chromatic and can therefore play in any key. 

Whilst playing jigs and reels in remote keys on this system isn't easy, playing along with steady paced songs in  keys like E F G A B C D or Bb would be a realistic proposition. 

Downside: it's worth adding that the basses don't have much scope, and the chording possibilities of the treble keyboard are quite limited in most keys.

[george garside]

Whilst playing jigs and reels in remote keys on this system isn't easy,

It is a lot easier on a 3 row semitone box


 playing along with steady paced songs in  keys like E F G A B C D or Bb would be a realistic proposition.

Eb .Ab, F# and C# are realistic on a 3 row

Downside: it's worth adding that the basses don't have much scope, and the chording possibilities of the treble keyboard are quite limited in most keys.

[Ebor_fiddler]

@Baz - Howie is in Kent, per his personality data. I would have offered to lend him my "F" box, but I'm in Yorkshire. Can anyone lend him one who is nearer?

[Chris Ryall]

Don't personally recommend a BC or other half-toner for this. Yes, they are technically chromatic and can play melody in any key. But song accompaniment is more about playing chords or arpeggios/ broken chords, and letting the song do the real work. In this respect you may find them lacking

[george garside]

Each to his own is one of the wonders of diatonic land!

george

[squeezy]

I'd side with Chris on this one ... it seems odd to consider learning a whole new system for a single song - however getting a C/F to complement a D/G is a sensible thing that many players do as it is completely transferable and simply a transposing instrument.

[Mike Hirst]

Don't personally recommend a BC or other half-toner for this. Yes, they are technically chromatic and can play melody in any key. But song accompaniment is more about playing chords or arpeggios/ broken chords, and letting the song do the real work. In this respect you may find them lacking

Au contraire, mon ami.

B/C layout with traditional basses gives good options for left hand chords and right hand harmony in the key of F.

http://forum.melodeon.net/files/site/BC21tradbass.gif

I'll admit that the missing Bb chord is not ideal, but intelligent use of Dm and Gm substitution, using either thirdless left hand chords or lh root + rh harmony, can be very effective.

Indeed this is the equivalent of playing in C on a D/G - a pracatice which is well known and commonly used by many.

[Chris Ryall]

Ah! Guess that's because it's left chorded as a C? Confess my practical experience of half tone play is very limited, and that on C#D with D/G left end. However when I tried to look for chords in setting up Melodeon Explorer I was surprised how few worked.

This does not apply to the "British" BCC# system of course (cue George 😉) which is rich in possibilities, but an even bigger learning curve.

[baz parkes]

@Baz - Howie is in Kent, per his personality data. I would have offered to lend him my "F" box, but I'm in Yorkshire. Can anyone lend him one who is nearer?

I have 2 in Cheshire...but that's still quite a long way away...

[Mike Hirst]

The Brazilian 8 bass (oito baixos) semitone instrument used by some forro players is essentially a B/C instrument with altered basses which includes Bb. The right hand layout includes a useful set of reversals making it a very handy instrument for playing in F.

[george garside]

This does not apply to the "British" BCC# system of course (cue George 😉) which is rich in possibilities, but an even bigger learning curve.

The  treble end of BCC#    really does not  require a bigger learning curve than does  a 3 row DGacc or a DGA both of which require completely different fingering for each key ( other than 'on the row'.  If you exlude straight 'on the row' which of course provides 3 keys you only need to learn 4 scales to provide the other 9  keys!  - yes it realy is that simple.  Another huge advantage is that all accidentals or 'black' notes are  very logically placed   next  to the corresponding 'white' notes.

  the stradella bass is extremely logical and very easy to get the hang  to play reasonable well although experts can do all sorts of clever things with it, most of which is not required in 'folk' music.  It is arguably easier than 8,12 or 18 push/pull bass as  there is absolutely no  reason to carefully cross row on the treble just to be able to pot a particular bass note at a particular time.  Even the corona size 12 bass trichord  has bass for CGDA aand enough to do something in F and E and several trichords have had the bass successfully 'converted, to 32 or 48 which adds minor chords and the very useful counterbass.

The weight of a large BCC# is obviously greater than any 'melodeon'  but this is to some degree compensated for by 'compact'  bellwos action that requires less energy! 

Its a pity hohner don't make a trichord ( corona  size)  with 48 bass.

As to comparison with a 2 row semitone box the 3 row treble is actualy easier to play due to the choice of notes available .

Its all about horses for courses  which Is why I also  also play a simple 2 row DG  which is ,to  me, eminently suitable for 'English' ceilidh stuff and 'English' mostly DG session stuff. I love both systems but am not at all keen on larger 'melodeons'  as they are , to me,  too much of a compromise when compared to the BCC#

george