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[Chris Ryall]

The problem with Brian's customer is everlasting speed push, taking no prisoners on the way. Eg there is a nice old (older than me) melodeonist there who occasionally starts a "slow and steady" tune and usually gets it simply stolen from him. He's actually better behaved when Brian is there, but in his absence (February?) was so ADHD in his musical approach that I haven't been back since.

Bb-ing a tune does moderate such people, as described above and is a civil way to keep control of your own music, but would shut the old timer out. Not quite the plan

Actually this sort of thing might be better discussed on "musicianship" thread I started yesterday, and in terms of the core human qualities of "listening" "respect" and "love"

[Thrupenny Bit]

Just to clarify my post.
My friend brought the BbEb along, it was the start of the evening where people were getting drinks, arranging chairs, being sociable with one another so we hadn't sat down to play yet.
It was a chance to twiddle on my mates box before we all got going.
I want to make clear I wasn't trying to be clever by kicking a tune off in D/G land with a Flat tuned box.
Q

[Chris Ryall]

Don't think you need in any way to apologise.  I've been to 2 (Sheffield) sessions where all they did was play D/G repertoire in a different key. Well sometimes that worked, but some tunes weren't so hot

Whereas the two Whitby sessinons had their own tunes and IMHO benefited from that. Yes, some of it was band music

[Thrupenny Bit]

I've been going through some tunes on my friends Flat Box today.
Nobody home so letting it rip 

My favourite so far is  'old Grenadier' which sounds fabulous in the lower key. I can even feel the fingerboard vibrating against my chest.....
Walztes give a chance to lean on the basses a bit too 
Q

[Jack Campin]

Three-flat strathspeys by William Marshall:

Code: [Select]

X:1
T:The Earl of Angus and Arran
M:C
L:1/8
K:Eb
B,|E<E B2 {A}G>FE>G|A<CF>E  D<B,C>D|E<E~B2 {A}G>FE>G|A<CF>D  E2E>B,|
   E<EB2     G>FE>G|A<CF>E  D<B,C>D|E<E~B2 {A}G>FE>G|A<CF>D ~E2E  ||
B |G<BE>A    G<BE>d|e<EG>E  D<FF>A |G<BE>B    GBE>g |f>ed>c ~B2BG  |
   A<cF>A    G<BE>G|F>~GA>G FEDB,  |E<GF<A    G<BA>c|B<ed>f  e2e  |]

Code: [Select]

X:2
T:Belhelvie House
M:C
L:1/8
K:CMin
C|    C>ccG c/c/c {d}e2 |   d>cBd f/e/d/c/ Bd |
      C>ccG c/c/c {d}e2 |{e}d>cBd c2       C :|
d|:{d}e3  g e/e/e    e2 |{e}d>cBd f/e/d/c/ Bd |
[1 {d}e3  g e/e/e   (ge)|   dBfd  c2       C2:|
[2 {d}e3  g dBfd        |   ecd=B c2       C |]
The second is more often played in B minor as "The North Bridge of Edinburgh", but the first is only ever played in E flat as far as I know.

Do you have a way of doing a Gmaj or G7 chord as the final cadence of Belhelvie House implies?  (If not you can always change it).

[Thrupenny Bit]

Ooooer real flat music!
Being the ever innocent, I've only thought about playing my normal DG repertoire on it. Never thought about using it for music in its own keys.
Thank you kind sir..... More things to work out.,
I have no idea about a G 7 chord... Will take a proper look at the keyboard layout and start to find about this strange but sonorous beastie.
Q

[Chris Ryall]

William Taylor Tabletop Hornpipe, subject of a thread here just now is in Gm, and author Dave Shepherd, to say nothing of a certain parishioner of this group are scornful of people playing it wrongly. 

Nice Bb/Eb key … go for it!

[Thrupenny Bit]

yep ok Chris.....just gotta get my head around what notes actually playing.
My head's still working in DG speak!
Right, where's that keyboard diagram...... ( starts ferreting round Melent's info pages.... )
Ah got it!
Q

[Theo]

Just been to a marvellous concert with Leveret at The Sage Gateshead. For an encore they played Andy's tune Milfield with Andy leading on his BbEb box. Sounded wonderful.

[Chris Ryall]

yep ok Chris.....just gotta get my head around what notes actually playing.

Always try to "know" the note playing. Be aware of the chord happening (rt end too if its that sort of music) and where that note lies (in 3rd, 5th, or an "out" 4th, 6th) in the chord. It's the basis of harmony, the basis of arrangment and improvisation, and frankly the basis of music.

So Gm is 6th of your Bb row, and that is its "relative minor" mode, aolian. Its chord is notes 1,3,5, 7 relative to tonic G,Bb,D,(F). Exactly same relativities as Bm on a D row. So it'll play better on the push.

/ed/ need to see Leveret. Why do these groups never do NW venues in their tours? Even "Gateshead" looks … an afterthought. Lucky Theo!

[Thrupenny Bit]

Theo:
Yes, heard Andy live in the spring on a solo gig and he used the Pariselle a lot.
We ended up having a guided tour of his Pariselle's innards, of which he is very proud of, rightly so. I was surprised to find out it then, that it was Bb/Eb.

Chris:
Yes I will get there!
I usually am aware of what I'm playing, as you say to relate to the left hand etc. and always am conscious of what's going on.
It's just I only really started playing my mate's box yesterday, so first thing's first - play some tunes on it that I know and simply listen to it.
It was gorgeous!
Next step - as you say - find out what on earth I *am* playing and what it's all about, musically.
Q on a steep learning curve

[Steve_freereeder]

William Taylor Tabletop Hornpipe, subject of a thread here just now is in Gm, and author Dave Shepherd, to say nothing of a certain parishioner of this group are scornful of people playing it wrongly. 

I guess the 'certain parishioner' comment is aimed at me, so I would like to say that I'm not being scornful at all, regardless of what Dave Shepherd may or may not be. I just wanted to point out that the tune as often played today is a simplified version and not how it originally started out, although I suspect many people are unaware of this. I certainly do not criticise people for 'playing it wrongly', so please don't suggest that I do  .

Whether or not you prefer the simplified version or the original version is a matter of personal preference; I like the original version because I feel it's more interesting, but hey - that's just me. Just to clarify the record, I also play it in G minor on a C/F box.

I think we've drifted some way from the OP's topic of Bb/Eb boxes, so I feel we've said enough about WTTTH.

[Chris Ryall]

It's more 'being aware' - yes you can play box totally unaware of notes and intervals. But awareness helps when you seek effects.

 eg just now was trying a new song in *Cm and trailed a D with a spare ring finger - it's a tense 9th on the home chord but 'in' the dorian 'other' chord of Bb. So when the rest of the box moves the D … resolves itself

And hundred's more things like that, some practiced, some workable out, some complete accidents … how come that?  Oh, I see! I can use that elsewhere …

  /ed/ http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,17638.msg216425.html#msg216425

* still in the Bb/Eb note set

[baz parkes]

Late to the party but...

Mine tends to be my noodling box of choice...probably because she doesn't get taken to gigs so she doesn't need taking out a case.

Noodling tunes tend to be cotswald based and I find they sit lovely...particularly some of the slower Fieldtown numbers...dunno if you know any of those Q?

Waltzes are also lovely...I may even have written a couple until I remember where I heard them

Enjoyable certainly...but I don't know how effective....

[Thrupenny Bit]

late yes ....but always welcome to the party Baz 

I found I was noodling stuff too, and the slower waltzes were lovely.
I have trawled through some of my tunes, and those that perhaps originated from a woodwind background sit nicely on it. The previously mentioned 'Old Grenadier' as the march of the Grenadier Guards must have originally been played on a woodwind band, and that sits just right.

Might try some of the Fieldtown stuff.....  yes, I might have heard of them, maybe, if memory serves right 

I was also wondering how often Flat Sessions occur.
I know Sheffield has one cos I've heard of Ollie and Richard Arrowsmith going along. I've joined the Facebook group, so will ask there.
Beyond those specific sessions, it sounds like it tends to be the weapon of choice for some singers or just.... for you in the privacy of your own home..... and there's nothing wrong with that!
Q



 

[Anahata]

Alternative approach: find some brass players and start a new band.
Most brass is naturally in B flat or E flat and the players may welcome the chance to play music that 's not in 3,4 or 5 sharps for them (though many seem to cope amazingly well).

Saxophones and clarinets also 2- or 3- flat instruments.

[Thrupenny Bit]

Oer.... radicle! but that is another thought too.
q

[Chris Ryall]

Flat sessions are quite rare. I've been to five, 2 of which I initiated. Of the others one never happened. I know of one more, a Sheffield event i couldn't get to

[Thrupenny Bit]

Hmmmm thought that might be the case.
I'm thinking if I do take the plunge then it'll have to be be something to play simply for my own enjoyment, and a change from my D/G's, which is perhaps a good idea. Can't really see myself setting up a band as Anahata suggests.
Thanks Chris.
Q

[AirTime]

I particularly like the way right hand chords sound on my vintage BbEb Hohner, although this may be partly due to the "Hohner effect" as well as the lower key. I don't know if this qualifies as using it "effectively", but slower tunes & waltzes sound best to my ear & it's always a joy to rediscover the sound of the BbEb Hohner after a period playing my Italian boxes.