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Author Topic: Share ideas?  (Read 6693 times)

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Winston Smith

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Share ideas?
« on: October 09, 2015, 08:35:17 PM »

I'm still very new to the melodeon, and to this site, but seeing as necessity is the mother of invention I've an idea regarding the dodgy old bellows on my £7 International. It's now 7 weeks since I saw it, as I didn't feel that it would survive the journey and the climatic conditions here in Egypt, but it's never been far from my mind. So much so, that I've agreed to buy a playmate for it! I've had to push the boat out a bit further for this new one, though; £15 for a Viceroy 2 row. (With the fabulous "Steel-Bronze Reeds" no less!) No idea what keys it's in, but I'm hoping that it won't include a "D", as that is what the one-row is.
My mind is continually turning to the one-row and its various failings and how to rectify them without spending money, and now I'm expecting the old Viceroy to have similar problems when I see it in November, which has led me to the current idea that I'd like to share with all you experts, either long-standing or relative newbies, for your comments of encouragement or otherwise. I hope that you'll forgive me if this idea is completely bonkers, but I'm a motor mechanic, really, and I'm just working through possibilities as they bubble up to the surface of my consciousness.   
In my ignorance, I would have thought that cardboard wouldn't last very long as a bellows material, with all that flexing out and in, surely the folds would soon break? The bellows of the one-row International have, indeed, come partially adrift in a couple of places exactly at the fold in the cardboard. (When a local concertina player asked to have a squeeze and pulled the bellows right the way open, I nearly died of fright as I imagined the whole thing coming into two, but it didn't!) Obviously, the Viceroy, being of a similar age will have similar bellows problems. In fact, in the picture I've seen it's plain that at least one of the outside folds has been taped up with a contrasting material.
Is there a way to revitalise cardboard? I think the answer is "no", so I've been pondering about a way to strengthen the folds which are still completely intact. How about soaking them (just the fold, that is) in watered down PVA? It's flexible, I imagine that it would bind together the fibres which make up the cardboard and thereby strengthen the fold, and it also dries clear! What's not to like about all that?
I'm aware that there are some very clued up members on here, and I'd really appreciate some serious replies please. If this is a no-no, I have a fall-back idea as well, which I'll share (and ask further advice on) if and when it becomes necessary. Thanks, in advance, for your thoughts.
Edward.
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Nick Collis Bird

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Re: Share ideas?
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2015, 12:41:38 PM »

You'll be surprised Edward just how strong cardboard is. In Pentonville Prison even some furniture is made of it. The problem with bellows is not the flexing but wear from rubbing on belt buckles etc.
 This of course can be repaired by re-taping and new leather gussets.
   I don't think the PVA idea, although a good one will make any difference.
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Theo

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Re: Share ideas?
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2015, 01:01:00 PM »

And Nick is a bookbinder, so he knows about such materials.

In bellows cardboard has two do two conflicting things - it has to be rigid, except at the folds where it has to flex.  PVA might help to make it more rigid but that would impede the bending at the folds, and could make failure more likely rather than less.

With worn bellows there is quite a lot you can do in the way of repair by gluing on patches of card from the inside.  Cereal packets seem to work pretty well, and meet your need to not spend money!


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Nick Collis Bird

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Re: Share ideas?
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2015, 01:17:12 PM »

Theo's absolutely right. Even good quality cartridge paper will do for inside patching and won't to any degree stop the bellows straps fron closing.
 Imagine how many times the pages of a well read book are turned to no apparent damage. The paper stays okay it's just the glue and stitching that breaks down.
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Lester

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Re: Share ideas?
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2015, 04:28:31 PM »

Like Theo, all my major bellows repairs are sponsored by Kellogg's. I cut pieces from the sides of cereal packets and use the already well defined fold. I recently successfully repaired a set of bellows that had been worn right through on a number of folds using this method.

malcolmbebb

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Re: Share ideas?
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2015, 04:41:12 PM »

Like Theo, all my major bellows repairs are sponsored by Kellogg's.

Lester has done a number of these, he is well known as a cereal repairer.
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Nick Collis Bird

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Re: Share ideas?
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2015, 05:54:22 PM »

Oh God!  8)
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Graham Spencer

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Re: Share ideas?
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2015, 06:24:39 PM »

Like Theo, all my major bellows repairs are sponsored by Kellogg's.

Lester has done a number of these, he is well known as a cereal repairer.

No shortage of corny jokes here......
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Re: Share ideas?
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2015, 06:48:52 PM »

Even Godder!!
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Winston Smith

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Re: Share ideas?
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2015, 09:14:18 PM »

Thanks chaps, that certainly sounds easier than slavering about with watery PVA and brushes etc. I hope Nestle cereal boxes will stand in instead of Kelloggs, though!!! (I'm more of a Shreddies man.)
So, it's onward and upward, and is there a suitable substitute for the commercially sold bellows tape, as I cannot afford to bandy five pound notes around willy-nilly if there's something more readily and cheaply available, and which would do the job almost as well! I'd already used a couple of lengths of black duct tape before I read on here somewhere that it was (or certainly should be) forbidden, and, as it wouldn't stay stuck down, I beefed it up a bit with yet more PVA, sorry!
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911377brian

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Re: Share ideas?
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2015, 09:36:11 PM »

I'm warming to you,Edward...... ;).
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Winston Smith

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Re: Share ideas?
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2015, 09:43:47 PM »

Ah! So you're a Shreddies man too, Brian?
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Broadland Boy

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Re: Share ideas?
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2015, 01:26:27 AM »

You may have noticed they all freely tell you how and with what to fix leaky bellows Edward but keep very quiet on the subject of identifying where the leaks actually are - this being the province of the secretive Ancient and (Mostly) Honorable Order of Reedtwangers, Bellowwrights and Bookspiners (1974) Ltd.

Well through much covert surveillance & CCTV hacking I can now spill the beans* and reveal their secret fail proof method!
(don't throw those cans out either - why do you think the Councils send blokes round to collect them? THEY'RE WORTH A FORTUNE)

Find a builders skip containing a discarded but not expired can of aerosol gap filling foam (got to protect that theoretical fiver of yours for ebay) Expand the bellows, stand upright, if there is an available hole in a fold put the spout in it (if not make one) and spray the remaining can contents. in a few minutes you will be delighted as the expanding foam finds not only holes in the bellows but in the end seals as well, you may even be really lucky and find a few leaking pallets or a leaky air bleed valve. Voila every hole, crack and leakage not only indicated but plugged up as well.

Perhaps in the spirit of the topic, you'd let us know if you ever figure their even more secret way of getting the damn stuff out again, meanwhile the ones I've done so far make great doorstops and bookends and the family are unanimous that they sound better than ever before.  :o

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Winston Smith

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Re: Share ideas?
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2015, 07:11:42 AM »

It's not often that I'm rendered speechless, but I am now!
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Julian S

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Re: Share ideas?
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2015, 07:51:01 AM »

Great advice as ever on the forum. Shall now give up on submerging box in bath to find the leaks. Have always wondered whether wet tuning had to be done underwater.... ::)
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Re: Share ideas?
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2015, 08:44:57 AM »

So, it's onward and upward, and is there a suitable substitute for the commercially sold bellows tape, as I cannot afford to bandy five pound notes around willy-nilly if there's something more readily and cheaply available, and which would do the job almost as well!

The proper stuff's not that expensive, Edward!

Buying from Charlie Marshall for just over your fiver gets you a 7m or 8m roll, depending on width.
If you want more, a 50m roll costs just under £30, or Charlie will sell an interim quantity on enquiry.
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Winston Smith

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Re: Share ideas?
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2015, 08:59:39 AM »

Yes Steve, but "A penny saved is a penny earned" as I'm sure you know! I occasionally drool over the odds and ends on Mr Marshall's site, but the spectre of my "Chancellor" is always looming over my shoulder, God bless her.
I do find that making do and mending is half the fun of having old things to care for, whether it's a house, a car, a melodeon, or even a wife!!!! Thanks for the encouragement, anyway.
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Graham Spencer

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Re: Share ideas?
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2015, 10:06:49 AM »

To be quite honest, I don't think there really is any decent alternative to proper bellows tape, and I suspect any off-the-shelf product that might be adapted for the purpose is likely to be at least as expensive, probably more so. Certainly some of the horrors many of us have come across with insulating tape, gaffer tape, even heavy carpet tape on one bellows that came my way, suggest that proper tape is the only real way to go.

Graham
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Nick Collis Bird

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Re: Share ideas?
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2015, 11:10:22 AM »

This is the answer Edward. Buy a roll from Charlie and then eBay the remainder with a huge reserve, just like the £120 Chanson of recent times. With the profit you may even be able to buy Broadland Boy's Dodman !!  >:E
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Winston Smith

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Re: Share ideas?
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2015, 09:59:26 PM »

Thank you all, for what I'm sure is the best possible advice. It's looking increasingly likely that I'm going to have to have the exploratory operation where they look for cash! Rather like with the NHS, I've got a month or so to get used to the idea. Thanks again.
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