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Author Topic: Different view of rhythm  (Read 2566 times)

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Andy Next Tune

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Different view of rhythm
« on: October 25, 2015, 05:22:11 PM »

Came across this video showing a different way to display different rhythms graphically.
http://ed.ted.com/lessons/a-different-way-to-visualize-rhythm-john-varney
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playandteach

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Re: Different view of rhythm
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2015, 05:49:06 PM »

Came across this video showing a different way to display different rhythms graphically.
http://ed.ted.com/lessons/a-different-way-to-visualize-rhythm-john-varney
Thanks, even more interesting than I thought it would be. I like the idea of shifting the patterns - though I still think that chord changes are under-rated for their impact on rhythmic identity - for example the use of the hemiola (an illusion of changed metre) especially in Baroque music towards the ends of sections (they are only really effective if the chord changes at the moment of rhythmic divergence).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHyzQf38F6w
have a look at 1'36" to 1'38" to hear the seeming switch to 2 in a bar.
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John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: Different view of rhythm
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2015, 06:29:57 PM »

Another method
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Re: Different view of rhythm
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2015, 07:11:26 PM »

I used BounceMetronome to try and learn polyrhythms: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9sizq0L-MzI. What I like about this instead of the circle-thing is that you can anticipate the beat more, because you visually anticipate the swinging of the arms/pendulums (or what you would call them..)
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Re: Different view of rhythm
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2015, 07:20:07 PM »

With the first method I was lost after three dots and I was wondering about the time.
The second method was just making me hungry.  ;D

no really, very interesting!! thanks
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Jack Campin

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Re: Different view of rhythm
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2015, 11:21:21 PM »

This particular wheel has been reinvented many times. The oldest version I know (already far more sophisticated than that video, with many more divisions) is from an Arabic music theory text of about 800AD.
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Different view of rhythm
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2015, 07:03:32 AM »

strange that it might even need reinvention. A common property of rhythms is that they repeat and it seems surprising that they are analysed in any other way?
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george garside

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Re: Different view of rhythm
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2015, 09:01:34 AM »

I suspect that many play polythythms or whatevers without knowing them by name  or worrying about counting, theory or history . To me rhythms are a sort of musical laxative in that they bring about movement where there was none!

george
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Chris Brimley

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Re: Different view of rhythm
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2015, 09:27:29 AM »

I like the concept of the wheel, but what about the many tunes around the world that vary bar lengths, or which are in 5-beat, 7, 11, 13, etc time?  Sure they still have a rhythm, but it changes, sometimes in a regular pattern, sometimes not. Rhythm can often vary in different parts of a tune, and there's speeding-up and slowing-down to cater for, too.  The guy's explanation doesn't really touch on this, or explain how the wheel concept could be adapted to cater for such variation.
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Mike Hirst

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Re: Different view of rhythm
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2015, 05:26:27 PM »

This particular wheel has been reinvented many times. The oldest version I know (already far more sophisticated than that video, with many more divisions) is from an Arabic music theory text of about 800AD.

cite ???
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Jack Campin

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Re: Different view of rhythm
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2015, 06:01:24 PM »

It's either in Touma's "The Music of the Arabs" or the Garland Encyclopedia of World Music, I think. (This comes to you from a phone on a bus where I have access to neither). I'm pretty sure the Arab wheel had enough divisions to describe both sama'i and aksak in 9. More complicated cycles like devr-i-kebir (dunno the Arabic for that) were always described additively.

It occurs to me that you could have some fun with gear trains to represent rhythmic modulations.
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forrest

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Re: Different view of rhythm
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2015, 06:09:57 PM »


It occurs to me that you could have some fun with gear trains to represent rhythmic modulations.

An interesting analogy....perhaps moire patterns as well.
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Mike Hirst

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Re: Different view of rhythm
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2015, 07:49:33 PM »

It's either in Touma's "The Music of the Arabs" or the Garland Encyclopedia of World Music, I think. (This comes to you from a phone on a bus where I have access to neither). I'm pretty sure the Arab wheel had enough divisions to describe both sama'i and aksak in 9. More complicated cycles like devr-i-kebir (dunno the Arabic for that) were always described additively.

It occurs to me that you could have some fun with gear trains to represent rhythmic modulations.

thanks jack.

I'll check out those refs.
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Different view of rhythm
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2015, 07:10:56 AM »

I like the concept of the wheel, but what about the many tunes around the world that vary bar lengths, or which are in 5-beat, 7, 11, 13, etc time?  Sure they still have a rhythm, but it changes, sometimes in a regular pattern, sometimes not. Rhythm can often vary in different parts of a tune, and there's speeding-up and slowing-down to cater for, too.  The guy's explanation doesn't really touch on this, or explain how the wheel concept could be adapted to cater for such variation.

Several types, Chris. eg a Bulgarian might have a 322, 3322 or 33232 patterns, repeating, be it how you wish. My present bugbear "Rufford Park" has an uneven bar pattern, but it repeats over 17. Whereas yer "old fart" English folk singer as collected might put an extra note into a bar whereever the words seemed to merit it, or some - just the last bar, but always and add a word as necessary.

I'd say that the further you go down this track the less it becomes a rhythm, more something lyrical? But the Balkan assymmetrics are true rhythms, repeat, and people are expected to dance to them
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george garside

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Re: Different view of rhythm
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2015, 09:07:46 AM »


It occurs to me that you could have some fun with gear trains to represent rhythmic modulations.

 

Don't know why but that brings to mind the  inimitable musical sound of a 28hp Bedford in 2nd gear!

george
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Re: Different view of rhythm
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2015, 07:11:18 PM »

it brings the sound of a Fergie 35x with the Perkins 3 cylinder diesel, idling, to my mind.
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Re: Different view of rhythm
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2015, 07:49:02 PM »

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