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Author Topic: Beatrice Hill and Dennis Crowther  (Read 1168 times)

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Mike Carney

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Beatrice Hill and Dennis Crowther
« on: January 15, 2016, 02:33:51 PM »

Been having a discussion about the similarities between Beatrice Hill's Three Handed Reel and Dennis Crowther's No 3. I have read a little about Dennis Crowther but not much about Beatrice Hill. I haven't been able to find anything yet about links but found an interesting article on mustrad at MT 251 which adds a little light at point 18, revealing the common origin of the tune as the Moldavian Schottische, as recorded by Brass Monkey on "Head of Steam".     http://www.mustrad.org.uk/articles/waifs.htm
Mike
« Last Edit: January 15, 2016, 02:50:10 PM by Mike Carney »
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GPS

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Re: Beatrice Hill and Dennis Crowther
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2016, 05:41:08 PM »

I believe she was the landlady of the village pub at Bromsberrow Heath, and of traveller origins. In the few photographs I've seen of her she's playing a 1-row (no surprise there!). Further than that I have no idea..........

Some info here http://glostrad.com/performer/hill-beatrice/

Graham
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Mike Carney

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Re: Beatrice Hill and Dennis Crowther
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2016, 05:53:00 PM »

Perhaps it is no surprise. Checking the mileage from the pub to Clee Hill it seems to be no more than about 40 miles. Plenty of scope for cross-fertilization.
M
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Sage Herb

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Re: Beatrice Hill and Dennis Crowther
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2016, 07:30:03 PM »

But transmission/ fertilisation over a greater distance; what sounds to me like an approximation to BH's turns up as a schottische in the repertory of Australian fiddler Charlie Batchelor (1897-1984) under the title 'Loge and Vivvy's Schottische'. (Issued in 2005 on CD CS AFM 002 'Kind Regards'.)
Cheers
Steve
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Re: Beatrice Hill and Dennis Crowther
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2016, 09:11:06 PM »

   Dennis, I think would only have heard the recording of Beatrice Hill made in the 1950s by Peter Kennedy, She had not played for years then. I have friends related to Beatrice Hill and sister Emily Bishop in Bromsberrow Heath, They did not know aunty Beatty played anything at all and were delighted when I gave them the Kennedy tapes in the 1980s. In Bromsberrow church yard Beatty and Emily are buried side by side.  Dennis was a lot younger by some decades and I think was more influenced by the East Anglia players recordings.
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Beatrice Hill and Dennis Crowther
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2018, 10:31:29 AM »

Resurrecting this thread:
Just googling Dennis Crowther's no.3 and found this thread, somehow I missed it first time round!
I too have thought about learning Beatrice Hill's but again thought it too similar to Crowther's no.3 and therefore confusion sets in.

I stumbled on this early last year, a link to Shropshire tunes from JK below.
At the time it was a work in progress with no tunes there, and by chance looked again last week to discover the tunes have been sorted.
Check out this link, and on the right hand side - Shropshire tunes and video.
You have a list of tunes, dots, and the video is JK playing each one, a fabulous learning source!
https://www.tuneworks.co.uk/

Why I've been digging around is that the tune notated for DC's no3 starts off with a triplet which sounds odd - different - to how I remember it.
I've checked on JK's 'Garrick's Delight' cd which accompanies his ( excellent ) English Choice tune book and he plays it there as I remember it, a strong pulse, maybe a famous 'JK zip' as he calls it,  but no triplet. That has been the version I've previously learnt.

Before pressing 'send' to this post I've just gone and played this usingthe new dots and listened to the cd track. I think my confusing triplet JK plays really fast on the cd, which he calls his 'zip' and there lies my confusion.
Anyway, I'm off for a play and try and sort this out in my head and hands.
Please do check out this Shropshire Tune source, not largem, but really good. The bonus is John playing them firstly simple melody then full on. Just him.... lovely in my book!
cheers
Q


PS.... I'm sure there was a post here a couple of years back from the grandson of Beatrice Hill, not realising how famous her tune was. From memory he was holding  her one row and vowing to learn to play it!
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Beatrice Hill and Dennis Crowther
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2018, 10:43:46 AM »

Checking through both manuscripts, it's looking more like a different emphasis rather than different notes played, though the first 3 notes intro are only 2 notes in my previous version.
I just need to reconcile both versions in my head.....
Great tune though  (:)
Q
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

squeezy

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Re: Beatrice Hill and Dennis Crowther
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2018, 12:47:28 PM »

This tune (The Moldavian Schottische) is one of my favourites in all its descended forms.  Another great version comes from Orkney where they know it as The Old Polka. https://thesession.org/tunes/16336

Following tunes like this and how it changes depending on where it was played is fascinating!
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Squeezy

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