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Author Topic: Kalbe's Imperial as my first real project  (Read 3611 times)

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up-fiddler

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Kalbe's Imperial as my first real project
« on: January 27, 2016, 03:51:58 PM »

Hi all.
I have an old wooden Kalbe's Imperial with brass reeds that I am using to begin my voyage into melodeon repair.  A couple of pics to follow if I have the upload stuff working correctly.

A quick question for folks to chew on while I continue work on my first accordion project. (I have taken several apart and studied them but this is the first one I will put back together. >:E ) The reeds are all on a single plate. When I wax them back in proper place how fast will I need to move to wax all the the thin reed chambers separators? Will the wax remain workable if I take my time to do a neat job or will I need to be neat and fast at the same time?

Any other pointers you have to offer would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Dave
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Adam-T

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Re: Kalbe's Imperial as my first real project
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2016, 04:06:45 PM »

All the old wax will need to be fully removed as it`ll be crumbly and useless .. I`d carefully bead some new wax onto the separators (new wax is rather sticky even when set, not dry and hard) and then after mounting the unified reed plate, carefully wax around the whole plate (after replacing the valves of course ....

hopefully someone with more unified reedplate experience can help more , I`ve only done one , a Scholer Concertina
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: Kalbe's Imperial as my first real project
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2016, 06:18:19 PM »

Was wax ever used on these reed plates? Looking at the photos, it appears there are some holes on the reed chamber walls for nails or screws, so I'm wondering whether that was indeed the case and you have cleaned off the old leather gaskets.

Perhaps you might want to consider using the proper olovieci (sp?) self-adhesive gasket material on the reed chamber walls and using screws or nails to fix the reed plates down. This is how the reed plates are fixed on Emmanual Pariselle's one-row making courses.

The gasket material is very easy to use; it has a backing paper which protects the adhesive surface. It can be cut into shape/lengths using a sharp knife or scissors and then remove the backing paper and press the gasket into place.

See here:
http://www.cgmmusical.co.uk/CGM_Musical_Services/Felt_Leather_Pallets.html#15


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Theo

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Re: Kalbe's Imperial as my first real project
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2016, 06:37:11 PM »

These sort of boxes often manage without any wax or gasket on the chamber walls. As long as you get the top surface of the area really flat it should work ok.  Sometimes they were sealed with a soft cotton yarn laid along all the edges.  You could use oloviche but it will be very fiddly to apply to such narrow chamber walls. 
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up-fiddler

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Re: Kalbe's Imperial as my first real project
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2016, 07:06:14 PM »

Yes, there was a very thin line of wax - which I have cleaned up - on the little pieces of lath that separate the reed chambers. The plates were also held in with nails. I have carefully cleaned up the reed plates and will replace the valves with some from the kits I received from Charlie. Only the first six reeds on each plate originally had valves.

I still have a question about the bellows and one about limiting the button travel but will post those in new threads once I get to that point.

The work has been everything I expected. Fiddly and fun at the same time. Thanks to all for your help. Without melnet I would never have been able to try any of this.

Cheers,
Dave
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Nick Collis Bird

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Re: Kalbe's Imperial as my first real project
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2016, 09:04:18 AM »

Best of luck Dave, there is indeed a huge wealth of knowledge on this forums do long may it prosper.
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Kimric Smythe

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Re: Kalbe's Imperial as my first real project
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2016, 04:45:09 PM »

I have run into a few with wax, they are a bit of a pain. I actually took 2mm single stick foam and trimmed it to strips about 1.5 mm wide and made gaskets for the dividers, and ran a slightly wider strip the long way ,making sure it touched all the divider end pieces. The plate was secured with tiny screws and washers.
 If you use wax do as Adam-T mentioned and also warm (not hot enough to melt wax) the plate with a hair dryer before setting it ,this will really help bed it.
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Psuggmog Volbenz

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Re: Kalbe's Imperial as my first real project
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2016, 08:14:42 PM »

If you want to use wax, there is a tool used in making batik. The tool is called a tjanting. It has a wax resevoir with a hollow tube to very precisely distribute the wax. The tool is dipped into melted wax and quickly moved the to area to be waxed, or small bits of cold wax are placed in the vessel and it is heated over a candle or alcohol lamp. The ukranian egg dyers use a similar tool but much smaller. Using this tool is somewhat similar to using a waxing spoon.
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Pearse Rossa

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Re: Kalbe's Imperial as my first real project
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2018, 02:21:39 PM »

The tool is called a tjanting.

What spout size would you recommend?
They are available in a variety of sizes. I am guessing 1.5mm?
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Winston Smith

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Re: Kalbe's Imperial as my first real project
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2018, 02:49:17 PM »

I've often wondered about the normal waxing spoons, and this thing as well (which looks ideal for the Liliput I have to wax when I get home) as to how you manage to get them from the heat source/wax pot to the job, without leaving a trail of wax over everything. That's one of the reasons why I've persevered with the old soldering iron method.
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Pearse Rossa

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Re: Kalbe's Imperial as my first real project
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2018, 03:04:28 PM »

Here is one of many available YouTube videos.
It's not accordion reed waxing though.
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Re: Kalbe's Imperial as my first real project
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2018, 03:23:52 PM »

Thanks Pearce. So you just have to move quickly, after first holding something under it to catch any drips? Confidence, I suppose.
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Pearse Rossa

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Re: Kalbe's Imperial as my first real project
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2018, 04:20:30 PM »

Here is a more traditional method. An expert at work!
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John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: Kalbe's Imperial as my first real project
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2018, 04:56:27 PM »

Yes, that's the video I used to teach myself, and I also in consequence, use the same type of wax spoon.

SJ
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Winston Smith

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Re: Kalbe's Imperial as my first real project
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2018, 08:31:54 PM »

Yes, that does make it look easy. But it requires spending money! I already have an old (2 actually) electric soldering iron, and the blocks/strips of wax that I've acquired (thanks to those who supplied them, you know who you are) work well with it.
The only problem will be the Liliput, with the reeds right next to each other. I've plagued poor Theo, who has explained to me how to do them. But the tjanting is looking favourite at the moment, as the stick and iron method might just drown the reed chambers before I can get the reeds in place! A poor man's version of it can be had very cheaply on my favourite auction site. (And I can steal some tea lights from my Beloved!)
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Pearse Rossa

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Re: Kalbe's Imperial as my first real project
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2018, 01:16:02 PM »

The tool is called a tjanting.

What spout size would you recommend?
They are available in a variety of sizes. I am guessing 1.5mm?

Anyone? I am wondering if I might get away with just one size that will be suitable for all eventualities,
i.e., narrow spaces and wider spaces between reeds.
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Re: Kalbe's Imperial as my first real project
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2018, 08:02:21 AM »

Good luck with the tjanting tool. Paul Flannery uses one but he waxes with a 50/50 mixture of paraffin and bees wax, which flows more freely than pukka sticky rosin based wax, and he heats his over a gas stove so it gets very hot (and it’s also a bit of a fire risk). The problem with the tjanting tool is that you'll find you need to 'paint' the wax in with the tip, like you do with a spoon or a soldering iron, but that it cools too quickly and becomes clogged. And it’s tricky to pour. For narrow gaps etc it is more trouble than it’s worth. I’ve even got one that is an attachment to a calibrated soldering iron handle, to try and manage the heat, but it kept clogging up and now resides in the 'tried that, doesn’t work' bin.

Steve_freereeder

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Re: Kalbe's Imperial as my first real project
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2018, 08:22:17 AM »

Good luck with the tjanting tool. Paul Flannery uses one but he waxes with a 50/50 mixture of paraffin and bees wax, which flows more freely than pukka sticky rosin based wax, and he heats his over a gas stove so it gets very hot (and it’s also a bit of a fire risk). The problem with the tjanting tool is that you'll find you need to 'paint' the wax in with the tip, like you do with a spoon or a soldering iron, but that it cools too quickly and becomes clogged. And it’s tricky to pour. For narrow gaps etc it is more trouble than it’s worth. I’ve even got one that is an attachment to a calibrated soldering iron handle, to try and manage the heat, but it kept clogging up and now resides in the 'tried that, doesn’t work' bin.
That was my experience too. A friend gave me an old tjanting to try with reed waxing. I also found that the narrow spout clogged very easily. The tjanting is OK for use with batik work - that's what it's designed for, to be used with a very fluid melting wax such as soya wax (not 'sticky' enough for reed work).
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Winston Smith

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Re: Kalbe's Imperial as my first real project
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2018, 08:29:21 AM »

Thank you chaps, I'll keep my money in my pocket, then. A penny saved is a penny earned!
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Re: Kalbe's Imperial as my first real project
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2018, 09:15:52 AM »

The traditional Italian method of waxing is shown from about 23|30 in this video https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LNcp5GWBLBs the tool is a flat spatula that simply holds molten wax by surface tension. I’ve not tried it,  but the video makes it look easy! Haha.  All the methods that use a tool to carry wax from a wax pot rely on getting wax to the optimum temperature and then working quickly.
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