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Author Topic: Joinery  (Read 3187 times)

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Chris Ryall

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Joinery
« on: February 11, 2016, 09:51:39 AM »

i'm on record here as preferring "a while on one tune" to medleys, but the latter have a long tradition in British Isles sessions, and (as discussed elsewhere) some have become "traditional" in their own right.

Don't know about others, but some of the joining notes can be … pretty abrupt and in some cases border on brutal. This thread is for people to explore what works and share techniques.

I'll start it off with a G=>D transition. I look for an opportunity to play, or at least "suggest" an A7 chord on the right end. (dominant chords are not possible on a triad based melodeon left end).

A7 is A,C#,E,G and the "wrench" in there which "turns the key" is C#G. The notes are 3 tones apart, the unstable "Devils interval". It needs to resolve.

All depends on the tune, but I look for an Am, or C chord in the left end progression, play A bass instead and finger A7 pull on the right end. It's crossed with A inner row and the other notes on D row. Simples, your brain is now in D and more or less anything works as continuation.

Substituting A7 G for also works but a bit trickier. Better as an inversion as A and G pull notes are adjacent buttons and both in the chord. Just placing a finger across the rows can be enough. In effect this uses a Gsus9 chord, subtitute for A7

That's enough as a starter, others will have their own tricks … how to people ramp down from D to G?
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Chris Brimley

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Re: Joinery
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2016, 10:17:14 AM »

A nice trick from D to G is to play the RH semitone run D, C#, C, B, emphasising the change from C# to C, I find.   It works particularly well when the first note in the G tune is B.  There's several examples of Pete Coe playing this on my (old and very well-worn) New Victory Band LP 'One More Dance and Then...', and it also features at the beginning of the Monty Python theme tune played in G, from an assumed dominant D seventh.

On a two row DG box, you have of course got LH D7's available on either push or pull, but the low C flat 7th sounds a bit muddy, so it may be best to use a RH pull C from a higher octave with the D LH chord.
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Anahata

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Re: Joinery
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2016, 10:47:13 AM »

how to people ramp down from D to G?

D-C-B-A-G on the basses  >:E
(when it works...)

Isn't the point of all this that every combination of (end of tune 1) + (beginning of tune 2) is different, and presents new opportunities for ingenuity? There's no one-size-fits-all solution.
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Joinery
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2016, 11:51:58 AM »

Absolutely.  Hence leaving it open.  Being a harmony sort of chap I hadn't considered that simple run down scale on bass approach.

Chris's ellision - often just shifting a finger from C# to C  - I use a lot. The moment you mention C natural in a D tune … your brain is in G

I'm sure there are many ways of joining melodies (and let's not get Theo onto 'glue')!  ;)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 11:56:11 AM by Chris Ryall »
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up-fiddler

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Re: Joinery
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2016, 01:23:29 PM »

"(and let's not get Theo onto 'glue')"

Perhaps it's time to 'hide'.
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boxcall

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Re: Joinery
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2016, 03:57:59 PM »

With this topic
I thought for sure we would be using glue (:) or talking about the merits of mitred corner!!
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Rob2Hook

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Re: Joinery
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2016, 06:21:07 PM »

For a processional our side uses The Railway (G) and Fiery Clockface (D).  Just pulling an A chord at the end of Railway gives quite a lift into the second tune.  Going back there is no need for any trickery as the first note of Railway is a low D.

Rob.
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Joinery
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2016, 06:57:01 PM »

With this topic  I thought for sure we would be using glue (:) or talking about the merits of mitred corner!!

  ::)  >:E

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richard.fleming

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Re: Joinery
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2016, 09:53:56 AM »

What's wrong with just playing one tune after another? Trick is to find tunes that fit, and play them one after the other without a break in the rhythm of the dance. Is all that esoteric stuff about chord progressions really necessary? Or is it to make it easier to join tunes that don't really go together?
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Old Paolo Sopranis in C#/D and D/D#

Chris Ryall

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Re: Joinery
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2016, 10:40:24 AM »

absolutely - some last bits of tunes are perfect lauching pads for others. And then no "glue" is needed. I wouldn't go so far as to say that makes them partners however. That has more to do with rhythm and feel (I am not one to tack a flat out reel onto a slow ballad tune, and tend to drop out if others do that).

eg I set off a mazurka in a festival session - went so well that I felt moved to follow with Maz. ecoliere. Same key, they joined quite nicely - no - disaster as ecoliere sounds 3/4 but has a swung 9/8 underlying that, much of its charm frankly. It felt wrong all the way through and served me right for not trying out in advance.

another eg - I do the old Stanley Hallaway song "Dark Girl dressed in Blue" my voice likes G. Would like to join it it [guess what] which is in D. There is subtle rhythm change from a straight 2/4 to hornpipe sprung 4/4. Can't get that one right either.

So just stacking them can work but there is also a place for cadence. In jazz this would be "modal" versus "trad" - and again both happen.
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richard.fleming

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Re: Joinery
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2016, 11:35:58 AM »

I would never mix dances - always reels with reels, jigs with jigs, not necessarily same key but they have to go together so the join feels smooth..
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Old Paolo Sopranis in C#/D and D/D#

playandteach

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Re: Joinery
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2016, 02:01:37 PM »

And yet I find the Scottisch-Valse thing so alluring.
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Lester

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Re: Joinery
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2016, 02:12:48 PM »

And yet I find the Scottisch-Valse thing so alluring.

And the Mazurka-Waltz

Rees

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Re: Joinery
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2016, 02:46:45 PM »

There's a lot of alluring about today.
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Rees Wesson (accordion builder and mechanic)
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Rob2Hook

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Re: Joinery
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2016, 03:23:27 PM »

Not in the drizzle of Basin'smoke town centre there isn't!  Not called "Doughnut City" for nothing - and it ain't to do with the road plan.

Rob.
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Joinery
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2016, 04:10:05 PM »

mazurka waltzes are done all within the 32 (whatever) repeat of the tune cycle, ie as a dance in itself rather than 2 dances joined together. I've only seen one scottich waltz, done by Lucas Thebault and his dad at Bal de l'Europe and he said in the bar they'd made it up. But it was the same - several bars of each - repeat.   As such musical forms are complete, and written for the purpose they don't (?) need any cadence joins?

Welcome to Rees, Lester and Rob, and thanks for the humour. ;D Do please join in discussion, we'd value your experience, and substantive contribution to the thread  (:)
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Rees

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Re: Joinery
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2016, 04:42:41 PM »

As I have no opinion whatsoever on how tunes should or shouldn't be played, I'll leave you with the lyrics to my latest hit song:

Roses are red, violets are blue.
We're off to Belfast, toodle-oo.
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Rees Wesson (accordion builder and mechanic)
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Lester

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Re: Joinery
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2016, 06:04:50 PM »

As someone once said 'The tunes don't mind' so do what ever you like

squeezy

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Re: Joinery
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2016, 09:24:55 PM »

I would never mix dances - always reels with reels, jigs with jigs, not necessarily same key but they have to go together so the join feels smooth..

Oh really?  I've found that switching from a slowish reel to a jig can be brilliant in a Cumberland Square Eight if you keep the pulse of the bars the same ... can really make the dance change gear for the final few times without actually speeding up.
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Theo

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Re: Joinery
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2016, 12:16:03 AM »

I've just done that at a dance tonight.  Works a treat.
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