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Author Topic: Is this really an appropriate price for an unrestored 499/3/16 ?  (Read 2813 times)

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AlexCJones

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I did not post this on "Buy and Sell" since I am not selling it, and if I read the rules correctly, it would be a misuse on my part.

But doesn't the price seem a little high for one of these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Hohner-3-row-Accordion-button-box-G-C-F-Accordian-Germany-Grand-Prix-/281808951137?hash=item419d1f5761:g:UkAAAOSwqu9VM-Zk

I think (but i am not sure) this has been relisted and I don't think this guy is ever going to sell it for that price.

If I did not already have a 16-bass GCF 499/3/16 similar to this, I would click on "Make an Offer" and offer, well something much lower.  But, I think someone else should have the chance to low-ball this one.

Maybe tomorrow, I will offer something low, and if someone here offers something higher than what I offer, then it belongs to that someone.  I would hate to see it disappear and no one ever buy it.
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AirTime

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Re: Is this really an appropriate price for an unrestored 499/3/16 ?
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2015, 04:20:56 AM »

Unrestored & in good condition this should sell for somewhere between $200 & $350. They are not that uncommon listings on US Ebay.
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Winston Smith

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Re: Is this really an appropriate price for an unrestored 499/3/16 ?
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2015, 07:24:28 AM »

Even though it looks really nice, I think I might give this one a miss.
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Graham Spencer

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Re: Is this really an appropriate price for an unrestored 499/3/16 ?
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2015, 08:56:37 AM »

It's not all that unusual for eBayers to expect silly prices. You have to admire their optimism, though - so often the item doesn't sell and is relisted several times at the same price, despite the fact that similar items are going for a fraction of their asking price..........

Graham
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Among others, Saltarelle Pastourelle II D/G; Hohner 4-stop 1-rows in C & G; assorted Hohners; 3-voice German (?) G/C of uncertain parentage; lovely little Hlavacek 1-row Heligonka; B♭/E♭ Koch. Newly acquired G/C Hohner Viktoria. Also Fender Jazz bass, Telecaster, Stratocaster, Epiphone Sheraton, Charvel-Jackson 00-style acoustic guitar, Danelectro 12-string and other stuff..........

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Theo

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Re: Is this really an appropriate price for an unrestored 499/3/16 ?
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2015, 09:16:56 AM »

GPS is right there are some crazy prices on ebay. If we discussed every overpriced squeezebox on ebay we would need a whole extra forum! ;D ;D   If its the first time you have seen stupidly high prices on ebay then you have been very lucky.   Just ignore them and they eventually go away.
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pgroff

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Re: Is this really an appropriate price for an unrestored 499/3/16 ?
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2015, 01:53:51 PM »

I have a couple of really nice examples of a similar model (unrestored, but with very little playing wear and all parts in great condition).  Just because mine are so nice, I think they would be worth at the high end of AirTime's estimate if not more, but if you want one (or two), let me know.

Paul Groff
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« Last Edit: October 24, 2015, 02:28:20 PM by pgroff »
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dino.pafftti

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Re: Is this really an appropriate price for an unrestored 499/3/16 ?
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2015, 05:31:01 PM »

Could it be made by Hohner ???
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pgroff

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Re: Is this really an appropriate price for an unrestored 499/3/16 ?
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2015, 12:16:38 AM »

Dino.pafftti,

Not sure whether your example is Hohner but it looks very nice!

Alex and all,

Back to the 16 bass 3 row Hohners, here's an earlier model than the one Alex posted.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-M-HOHNER-DIATONIC-ACCORDION-16-BASS-31-Treble-GERMANY-/141810625769

This type isn't quite as easy to play or well balanced as the later ones, but the example here does have steel reeds and an unbroken grille. This model was also offered at times with brass reedtongues.

The seller appears to be letting the market price it, which should be interesting.  If there's no shill bidding or exuberantly optimistic bidding, but if there's at least two people interested in it, I'd expect this one to sell for around $150.  In today's very soft market it might go for less. But that's a pretty good deal for an attractive project, if you want to play one like this.  I doubt you'd get anyone to make you the parts for one of these for anything close to that price!  However, the later model linked above might well be worth twice as much or more for increased playability and possibly better condition.

PG
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AirTime

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Re: Is this really an appropriate price for an unrestored 499/3/16 ?
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2015, 02:54:22 PM »

Your examples look very nice, Paul. It's always seemed to me that if you're going to buy a vintage instrument that requires restoring, you may as well spend the extra $50 - $100 to get one in really good external condition so that when its internals are sorted you've got a really nice instrument.
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1920's BbEb Hohner; 1920's  AD Koch; 1910 (?) One-row Hohner in D,  1910's GCB Maga Ercole; ; AD 1950's Pistelli, CF Sandpiper, CF Preciosa, BbEb Preciosa.

pgroff

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Re: Is this really an appropriate price for an unrestored 499/3/16 ?
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2015, 03:13:16 PM »

Thanks AirTime,

I tend to agree with you, myself. If you're going to pay someone to restore an old accordion like this, you have to keep in mind that buying the project can be just the tip of the iceberg. You are usually getting into a situation in which you'll pay hundreds or more to restore it - an amount that can double, triple, or quadruple the purchase cost before you're ready to play.  So that can mean that the difference in initial purchase price between a "$100 project" and a "$400" may not be as significant as the difference in the quality of the final result. In this context, "quality" could mean cosmetics (that nice original external condition that can be hard to recreate in restoring them) but also "build quality" which can include design and craftsmanship (quality of the reeds, ergonomics, durability etc). 

But it all depends on how you value your time and the work of restoring them.  For some hobbyists, tinkering with accordions is a fun activity. They don't count the cost of their time - spending the time on the restoration is part of the fun.  In those cases it can be a point of pride for some folks, to minimize the total cash outlay -- to buy a wreck for $50 and get it working themselves. But if they are honest, those hobbyists will understand that they may invest much more value of skilled work  (and will incur substantial costs of tools / supplies / spares) than the completed restoration project may eventually be worth, as valued by today's rather small market of players who might consider buying a button accordion.

PG

« Last Edit: October 25, 2015, 03:32:38 PM by pgroff »
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Theo

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Re: Is this really an appropriate price for an unrestored 499/3/16 ?
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2015, 05:54:04 PM »

Nicely put Paul.
I started at the cheap end of that spectrum, but I've changed. I've learn that some models were never much good, and are difficult to repair so I avoid them.  Recently I've gone as far as declining work on two cheap old German melodeons because they would not give me any satisfaction to work on.
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pgroff

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Re: Is this really an appropriate price for an unrestored 499/3/16 ?
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2015, 01:56:45 PM »

Well, this one did sell very cheaply (at less than my estimate of its "fair market value" if two bidders really wanted it -- but then I also predicted that a bargain in the auction might result, because of the current very soft market for unrestored accordions):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-M-HOHNER-DIATONIC-ACCORDION-16-BASS-31-Treble-GERMANY-/141810625769

I think this was a "bargain" relative to my estimate of "fair market value" because if anyone seriously wanted to restore and play one of this model, at that price it would have been worth buying to have spare parts (such as the fragile wooden grille) on hand!

Did anyone here buy it?  How is it internally and how do you like the playability? (I personally find these a bit bulky and not as playable as the later models.)

Then, another example of the model in the OP has come along. This one shows a fair amount of casework wear compared to my examples, but it looks very restorable after a substantial investment in leathers, wax, tuning, gaskets, etc. Has a bid at 200$US and it might (but might not) go a bit higher:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/191734640682

PG
« Last Edit: November 11, 2015, 02:34:28 PM by pgroff »
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AlexCJones

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Re: Is this really an appropriate price for an unrestored 499/3/16 ?
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2016, 05:30:08 PM »

GPS is right there are some crazy prices on ebay. If we discussed every overpriced squeezebox on ebay we would need a whole extra forum! ;D ;D   If its the first time you have seen stupidly high prices on ebay then you have been very lucky.   Just ignore them and they eventually go away.
No, not the first time.  There was one guy who kept trying to sell Stagi concertinas with a starting bid that was about two or three times the retail price that the same models sell for unused.  I don't often see the items that I am interested priced about ten times what I would expect.  This just seemed like a new level. 

Sometimes I think stupid postings are amusing too.  Years ago, there was one for a 1-row diatonic accordion (listed as aoncertina) which was the type with external pallets, except the pallets were missing showing the gaping holes in side and the seller described it as being in "playable" condition.

Anyway, the instrument that I made this post about keeps getting relisted for about the same amount.  I already have a GCF, so that is why I have not made an offer.

I might consider buying one the FBEs ones from pgroff though in the near future.
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