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Author Topic: Project box  (Read 29830 times)

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Jef

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Re: Project box
« Reply #40 on: March 03, 2016, 10:03:37 PM »

Today, I went ahead with removing the reeds from the Eb block. 



Is this the normal alignment for reed plates?  I.e., rivet side toward the bellows on the high notes?  They are consistently placed that way in this instrument, so I assume it's on purpose.

Regrettably, the gasket on this block/side is in relatively poor shape:



The other side looks pretty good, but as I have the olovisc on order anyway, I'll probably go ahead and do all four sides rather than just three.

In addition, this block presented me with a bit of mystery.  You may have noticed the pencil mark between the 2nd and 3rd reeds.  In removing all the screws, I've taken extra care not to strip anything - the screws are very small and the wood is fairly soft - and this one gave me trouble.  On any of these, whenever I've encountered any sign that the screw was not backing out easily, I've put the tip of another driver under the washer to use as a lever, giving just a tiny bit of encouragement for the screw to back out as it turns.  This method takes some finesse, but I've done it many times, and it usually works quite well. Not, however, with the screw where the mark is.  The screw slot was also smaller than the others, to the extent that I had to switch to a narrower driver.  Finally, I resorted to pliers, to gently tug the screw out while turning. 

This is what I finally freed from the hole:



Now, I'll admit to not being particularly well educated, but I can't figure out for the life of me why somebody would file a slot into a the head of a fastener with no threads, unless they were trying to create the appearance of a screw without actually using a screw.  Seems like a lot of trouble to go to.





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Theo

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Re: Project box
« Reply #41 on: March 03, 2016, 10:10:28 PM »

Yes the reversed top reeds is a normal feature of many reed blocks.

I believe that 1930s Hohners with reeds on gaskets often had the screws hammered in rather than turned with a driver.  The screw head is often slightly flattened making it difficult to get the driver blade into the slot.    Whether they were hammered in all the way, or it was just a final tap I don't know.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Jef

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Re: Project box
« Reply #42 on: March 18, 2016, 07:02:27 PM »

After a brief period of dormancy, I am back at it.  My parts order from CGM arrived last Friday, but alas I have been unusually busy with (billable) projects, so I have had to let things sit. 

Today, I decided to glue up pallets.  I had removed and prepped the treble side pallets when I removed the treble mechanism to re-mount it, so I just needed to get the bass side pallets off:



For the moment, my plan is to leave the bass mechanism in place.  I've ordered felt o-rings for the buttons, but my inclination is to leave button removal for another day.  Having said that, what are some good ways to remove buttons?

Here are the pallets, all glued to the felt with a thin application of plain old white PVA glue:



Sandwiched between two nice, flat pieces of MDF:



And weighed down by my copy of the Juran handbook, a heavy tome indeed.  Yet another service provided by the father of the American Quality movement.  8)

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Lester

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Re: Project box
« Reply #43 on: March 18, 2016, 07:10:56 PM »

To remove the bass mech I do the following

Number the button rods (I do it from 1 to 8 from the air button) I mark them with a indelible marker.
Straighten out and remove the small nails that form the hinge at the bottom of the rod
Remove the rods out the front of the box

When replacing it do not reuse the old pins as they will almost certainly fail through being bent, I found that B&Qs Veneer Pins are the correct size.

Malcolm Clapp

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Re: Project box
« Reply #44 on: March 18, 2016, 11:36:58 PM »

If you don't need to dismantle the left hand mechanism for any reason other than to replace the felt washers, the buttons can be sweated off by applying heat (soldering iron) to the rods from the inside of the box. About 30 seconds with an already hot 25 watt iron should do the trick, but your mileage may differ. I recommend that you do them one at a time so that when you put the buttons back on, again after heating the rod, you can push them back on to the same height as original.

Actually, having zoomed in on your photo, there seems to be a bit of rust present, so maybe Lester's method might be a better bet so that you can more easily clean the mechanism up a bit while you are at it.....
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Jef

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Re: Project box
« Reply #45 on: March 19, 2016, 08:31:16 PM »

To remove the bass mech I do the following

Number the button rods (I do it from 1 to 8 from the air button) I mark them with a indelible marker.
Straighten out and remove the small nails that form the hinge at the bottom of the rod
Remove the rods out the front of the box

When replacing it do not reuse the old pins as they will almost certainly fail through being bent, I found that B&Qs Veneer Pins are the correct size.

Seems simple enough.  Google Maps tells me the nearest B&Q is 4644 miles away in Cork, Ireland - but I imagine I can find something suitable locally.  ;D

If you don't need to dismantle the left hand mechanism for any reason other than to replace the felt washers, the buttons can be sweated off by applying heat (soldering iron) to the rods from the inside of the box.

Thanks, Malcolm.  I found your advice on this method on another thread and was hoping you'd comment.  Have you done this with Casein buttons or only the (more) modern plastic ones?
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Pete Dunk

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Re: Project box
« Reply #46 on: March 19, 2016, 09:40:21 PM »

I did a lot of this several years ago Jef, so you may find this thread interesting.

Refurbishing An Old Hohner
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911377brian

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Re: Project box
« Reply #47 on: March 19, 2016, 10:02:35 PM »

Just been following up your old post Pete.What paper did you use to re-cover the bellows?
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Jef

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Re: Project box
« Reply #48 on: March 19, 2016, 10:06:37 PM »

I did a lot of this several years ago Jef, so you may find this thread interesting.

Refurbishing An Old Hohner

I have run across this very useful thread many times.  Very instructive and inspirational.
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Pete Dunk

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Re: Project box
« Reply #49 on: March 19, 2016, 10:41:30 PM »

Just been following up your old post Pete.What paper did you use to re-cover the bellows?

It was a bookbinder's paper from a company called Shepherd's if I remember correctly, it had a textured finish rather like snakeskin. It's now deleted from the stock list I'm afraid but it is rather pretty and remains so to this day. The sound of the box is another matter though!  ::)
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Rog

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Re: Project box
« Reply #50 on: March 20, 2016, 03:30:54 AM »

Yes the reversed top reeds is a normal feature of many reed blocks.

I believe that 1930s Hohners with reeds on gaskets often had the screws hammered in rather than turned with a driver.  The screw head is often slightly flattened making it difficult to get the driver blade into the slot.    Whether they were hammered in all the way, or it was just a final tap I don't know.

A small flat driver with the blade sharpened on a grinder should be enough to get most screws out. At least that's what I have found.

911377brian

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Re: Project box
« Reply #51 on: March 20, 2016, 12:54:21 PM »

Thanks Pete.I'm experimenting with various types of paper at the moment; plenty of time for that as removing the old stuff is taking forever. Did you make a pattern for cutting or did you make each piece individually? :Ph
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Jef

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Re: Project box
« Reply #52 on: March 20, 2016, 02:48:30 PM »

Meanwhile, back at the ranch...

With the pallets set aside to dry, I worked on replacing the gaskets on one of the reed blocks.  You will remember that in my zeal to disassemble, I destroyed the original leather gaskets.  It bears repeating that, as in all kinds of restoration work, it is well to heed the old adage Primum non nocere ("At first, do no harm").

As explained by Steve, the process is straightforward if tedious.  First cut the Olovisc into strips matching the width of the sections on the block.



Then peel the backing and stick the strips down.



In order not to lose the locations of the screw and pin holes, I pierced the gaskets with a thumbtack as I was laying them.



And then enlarged the hole with a pointy stick. (These are nail cuticle scrapers, available cheaply at beauty supply stores.  They seem to have a thousand uses.)



The end result:



As you can see, I had to double up the Olovisc where the reed plates seat against the inside face of the block.  This was necessary to eliminate any gaps at the other side of the reed plate.  I was going for a minimum of about 1mm of overlap.  Hopefully this will not be a problem.

 

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Pete Dunk

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Re: Project box
« Reply #53 on: March 20, 2016, 05:02:50 PM »

Looks good to me!

Brian, I'll PM you as we're going off topic.  :o
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malcolmbebb

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Re: Project box
« Reply #54 on: March 20, 2016, 05:08:43 PM »

Looks good to me!

Brian, I'll PM you as we're going off topic.  :o
Or start another thread and share with everybody - especially as I will be doing something similar soon  (:)
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Pete Dunk

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Re: Project box
« Reply #55 on: March 20, 2016, 05:40:27 PM »

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Nick Collis Bird

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Re: Project box
« Reply #56 on: March 22, 2016, 07:53:52 AM »

No. The blue is from the tempering process when the steel is heat treated. There is no blue on the top anyway, it's removed when the reed profile is ground and filed.

I have a conundrum here Theo. If the bluing is due to the tempering process, how can an ultrasonic bath remove that?
It might be as Broadland Boy ( Richard) suggested, that it's actually a chemical used for bluing gun barrels. In which case it would be washed off.
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Theo

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Re: Project box
« Reply #57 on: March 22, 2016, 08:11:10 AM »

Why not?  The bluing produced by heating is "just" a chemical coating formed by oxidation of the hot steel in contact wit the air. Ultra sonic cleaning removed rust which is also firmed by oxidation. I don't see any conundrum.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Broadland Boy

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Re: Project box
« Reply #58 on: March 23, 2016, 01:59:30 AM »

The cold blueing chemicals Nick, (over which I got into hot water elsewhere recently :|bl), would essentially be the same iron oxide coat as the blue temper oxide left on the sheet from which reeds are punched, durability varies depending on if air or oil tempered and interestingly none of my ancient engineering books note a grade, specification or process for free reed instrument material ???, however Mr Google returns:

Uddeholm Steel manufactures plain or alloyed carbon steels, martensitic stainless steels for springs, accordion reeds, wafer gang saws, lapping carriers and a variety of engineering parts.
Found elsewhere - Reed material is blue-tempered spring steel RC 48-52 (Rockwell hardness scale).
Hardened, tempered, polished and blued or yellow flat steel with dressed edges. Carbon content about 1.00%. Material has to possess good flatness, uniform hardness and high elasticity.


Like you I wouldn't have expected this film to be readily dislodged by ultrasonic bathing, however the fluid used in the bath may have an effect as the colour is probably only a molecule or so thick (think petrol on water) so given the ultrasonic hammering the other gunk needs to shift it from the reedplates and if the raw strip was cold quenched, which might leave the oxide brittle, it would potentially fetch off more easily, (I've seen this on bandsaw blades where there has been an annealing issue and it is a similar material)

Theos 'bathtime' experiences would be unlikely to remove barrel blueing in the same way (this is probably a blacker art than melodeon fettling  ;D) by comparison to the temper blue its like trying to reverse the effects of dropping a hot, full, runny waxpot onto a deep pile carpet, something that fortunately I have yet to do............

The work on the project box is coming along nicely and the photos have been very interesting
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Jef

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Re: Project box
« Reply #59 on: March 23, 2016, 06:21:27 AM »

I suppose one might obtain some blue spring steel with an interference coloring similar to the reeds and see if the ultrasonic cleaner removes the color.

I can confirm my cleaning solution and process removed the blue from the reeds.
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