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Author Topic: Shand Morino  (Read 13441 times)

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graememackay

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Re: Shand Morino
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2009, 10:59:07 AM »

Shouldn't someone let them know that they are daft charging that much?  A doctor maybe or some kind of Nurse would be benificial to give them their medication at the same time.
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Black Shand Morino

triskel

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Re: Shand Morino
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2009, 11:50:52 AM »

To be fair it is a two row with Stradella bass, which is unusual.

It may be unusual in 2009, but it wasn't so unusual in 1919...



...or 1939:

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Robin Harrison

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Re: Shand Morino
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2009, 11:44:44 PM »

If  I am reading this thread aright, I don't understand the dissing of the  ADG with a stradella bass.
       Loads of people only play in these keys and to have a chromatic bass would be fantastic. Part of the point ,as it were, of a stradella bass is not only to be able to accompany the right hand in any key , but also to be able to do runs,counter melodies, tunes etc in whatever key you choose on the left hand. So if you limit your chosen keys to ADG & the minors, it doesn't mean you necessarily want to limit your choice of chords etc.
       I often wonder if there were more choices on the market for a 2 1/2 row or three row with a stradella bass, what the current young melodeon whizz bangs would do with it. I think they do incredibly creative stuff with the 8,12 or 18 buttons as it is. To listen to a gifted accordion player is sometimes to be like listening to two players.
         Regards
    Robin
PS I used to know a Morris Musician ( Dolphin , I think ) who played a Paulo Soprani ADG with a full bass and wonderful music he made.
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Owen Woods

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Re: Shand Morino
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2009, 12:01:58 AM »

If  I am reading this thread aright, I don't understand the dissing of the  ADG with a stradella bass.
       Loads of people only play in these keys and to have a chromatic bass would be fantastic. Part of the point ,as it were, of a stradella bass is not only to be able to accompany the right hand in any key , but also to be able to do runs,counter melodies, tunes etc in whatever key you choose on the left hand. So if you limit your chosen keys to ADG & the minors, it doesn't mean you necessarily want to limit your choice of chords etc.
       I often wonder if there were more choices on the market for a 2 1/2 row or three row with a stradella bass, what the current young melodeon whizz bangs would do with it. I think they do incredibly creative stuff with the 8,12 or 18 buttons as it is. To listen to a gifted accordion player is sometimes to be like listening to two players.
         Regards
    Robin
PS I used to know a Morris Musician ( Dolphin , I think ) who played a Paulo Soprani ADG with a full bass and wonderful music he made.

I think that a 2.5 row with a small Stradella Bass (i.e. 48 in 12x4) would be a lovely box to have. I'm less convinced by a conventional ADG three row, although there would be those that would want one.
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HallelujahAl

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Re: Shand Morino
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2009, 11:10:46 AM »

HERESY ALERT!!!
The dream ticket for me would be a PA that is as light as and plays with the punch of a melodeon. Until I find that I'll stick with my swap-box system - PA for when I want to do more elaborate (or just plain easy but in an odd key) stuff, and melodeon for all else. It's why I've decided to learn BCC# - the only problem being that it's only a Trichord with an almost equally limited bass as your normal melodeon. So pennies being saved and a number of other instruments being sold-off in order to raise funds for a proper beastie. A shand morino is out of the question - but I'd like to get something close.

An ADG with stradella bass would be an interesting concept - and I would love to have a go on something like that. The bass would'nt have to be too extensive - 32 or 48b would be more than sufficient for most needs I'd have thought?
AL

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graememackay

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Re: Shand Morino
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2009, 11:18:45 AM »

There is nothing wrong with stradella bass systems for ADG accordions.  But you don't need 120 basses for 3 keys.  48 bass could give all the notes you need plus a few extras.  With Counter basses, fundementals, majors, minors, 7ths & diminished chords.

The Shand Morino was specifically designed for B/C/C# playing.    It is perfect for the job.  To convert it to A/D/G I think it would be wasted as a lot the instruments cababilities will never be utilized.
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HallelujahAl

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Re: Shand Morino
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2009, 11:23:56 AM »

Quote
There is nothing wrong with stradella bass systems for ADG accordions.  But you don't need 120 basses for 3 keys.  48 bass could give all the notes you need plus a few extras.  With Counter basses, fundementals, majors, minors, 7ths & diminished chords.

Yes, I'd agree - though I could quite easily do without the diminished row. Counter-bass, fundamental, chord, minors & 7ths would be plenty. The important thing would be that the range extended up and down enough.
AL
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Alison Scott

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Re: Shand Morino
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2009, 12:28:06 PM »

OK, so all you Stradella fans: 48 bass boxes appear to come in 12x4 and 8x6 varieties. Which is a better choice as the left hand of a B/C/C# (or even the LH of a mythical 2 1/2 row with Stradella bass). Why?

I do find it very hard to contemplate the idea of a bass that doesn't automatically fall more-or-less right as you play, though.

george garside

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Re: Shand Morino
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2009, 01:08:40 PM »

OK, so all you Stradella fans: 48 bass boxes appear to come in 12x4 and 8x6 varieties. Which is a better choice as the left hand of a B/C/C# (or even the LH of a mythical 2 1/2 row with Stradella bass). Why?

I do find it very hard to contemplate the idea of a bass that doesn't automatically fall more-or-less right as you play, though.

given the choice I would go for the 12x4 veriety (as on my casali) as it gives a bit of accompanyment  from A flat up to E.  I like the 7ths but can manaage without them if the trade off is to have bass for more keys available.  A nice but rare option is the 5x12 60 bass which includes 7ths.- a sort of shortarse version of the more common 80 bass!

george
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TomB-R

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Re: Shand Morino
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2009, 01:41:35 PM »

OK, so all you Stradella fans: 48 bass boxes appear to come in 12x4 and 8x6 varieties. Which is a better choice as the left hand of a B/C/C# (or even the LH of a mythical 2 1/2 row with Stradella bass). Why?

I do find it very hard to contemplate the idea of a bass that doesn't automatically fall more-or-less right as you play, though.
Can't claim this is first hand, but I'm told the lack of B minor is a problem for the 8x6 48 bass layout?
Tom
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HallelujahAl

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Re: Shand Morino
« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2009, 02:41:04 PM »

Quote
Can't claim this is first hand, but I'm told the lack of B minor is a problem for the 8x6 48 bass layout?
Tom

Yes, I would definitely go along with George's argument that the 12 x 4 variety would be much better. Would certainly be more useful to me than an 8 x 6 layout (which is what I use currently and am frustrated with its limitations). When faced with the above difficulty I just doodle around with D when really I need a Bminor chord. It sort of works but it ain't right. The B row with D# counterbass would be really useful.
AL
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george garside

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Re: Shand Morino
« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2009, 03:47:38 PM »

it alll depends on the type of music you want to play. For dance music where the emphasis is on generating good rhythm with reasonable harmony  anything more than the  facility to play the 3 chord trick is a bonus. As athe bass notes should be played 'short & crisp' and turgidity avoided at all costs then by definition none of the bass notes are going to last more than a fraction of a second so it could be argued that a lot of fancy chords  are wasted as  the punters will not even notice them being played. 

On the other hand for song accompanyment or perhaps for 'sunday best' solo playing of slower stuff  playing rich harmony with longish bass notes can ( but doesn't automatically) add to the proceedings  and may add to the players ssense of satisfaction.  There is however lot to be said for keeping it simple but well played rather than complicated & a bit iffy.

george
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HallelujahAl

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Re: Shand Morino
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2009, 05:09:36 PM »

Quote
There is however lot to be said for keeping it simple but well played rather than complicated & a bit iffy.

To which I say "Amen" - one of my favourite youtube clips is of this guy who certainly knows how to play a classic bass line that counterpoints the melody - and exemplifying your point George. And he's playing it on a two row heligonka with a standard diatonic bass configuration: makes me drool (well, food has that effect as well...but you know what I mean :D) Just wait till 38 seconds in...it's grand, yet incredibly simple.
AL
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george garside

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Re: Shand Morino
« Reply #33 on: June 17, 2009, 05:25:21 PM »

OK, so all you Stradella fans: 48 bass boxes appear to come in 12x4 and 8x6 varieties. Which is a better choice as the left hand of a B/C/C# (or even the LH of a mythical 2 1/2 row with Stradella bass). Why?

I do find it very hard to contemplate the idea of a bass that doesn't automatically fall more-or-less right as you play, though.

stradella are much easier to learn than is the left hand on a piano keyboard'cos one button produces a complete chord instead of the player having to make it up out of sevral individual notes.  Also the layout is very logical & the same 'patter' applies for any major key.  for starters all that is required for the 3 chord trick is eg in the key of C is the C bass & major chord ( next to each other on a diagonal row. the diagonal row above provides G & the one below F & there you have all you need to get by with.   so in effect its just the diagonal row of the key you are playing in plus the row above & the row below.  Taking whats on the diagonal row  starting next to the bellwos you have the counterbass ( a third down from the bass so counterbass on C diagonal row is E, Bass note C , major chord, minor chord & thats your lot on a 12x4. if its ? x 5 the 5th row is 7th chords & if its ? x6 the 6th row is diminished chords. In practice much easier than juggling about accross the treble rows on a Dg to try & improve the direction of the bass end!

george

george
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Rees

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Re: Shand Morino
« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2009, 06:11:17 PM »

- one of my favourite youtube clips is of this guy who certainly knows how to play a classic bass line that counterpoints the melody -

Thanks for the clip, Al. What a great player - truly inspiring.
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HallelujahAl

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Re: Shand Morino
« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2009, 06:21:07 PM »

Quote
I do find it very hard to contemplate the idea of a bass that doesn't automatically fall more-or-less right as you play, though.


The great thing about stradella bass is that it doesn't have to 'fall more-or-less right' - there are no worries at all about bellows direction in order to get the right bass harmony etc. Also you can play tunes/melody lines on the stradella bass at the same time as playing another melody line on the treble side - as in another fave video of mine 'Tico, Tico' played by Eddie Jay (can this possibly be our own eejay from this forum I wonder?). I just love the way the bass goes in one direction and the melody shoots off in another. The performance is played blisteringly fast  - but hey, if you've got it flaunt it! I have a copy of the original sheet music for this sung by Carmen Miranda if anyone's interested btw.
AL
« Last Edit: June 17, 2009, 07:30:52 PM by HallelujahAl »
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Waltham

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Re: Shand Morino
« Reply #36 on: June 17, 2009, 06:42:49 PM »

Quote
Can't claim this is first hand, but I'm told the lack of B minor is a problem for the 8x6 48 bass layout?
Tom

Yes, I would definitely go along with George's argument that the 12 x 4 variety would be much better. Would certainly be more useful to me than an 8 x 6 layout (which is what I use currently and am frustrated with its limitations). When faced with the above difficulty I just doodle around with D when really I need a Bminor chord. It sort of works but it ain't right. The B row with D# counterbass would be really useful.
AL
If you're stuck with 8x6 it might be worth moving the reeds around so that instead of going E-flat to E it goes B-flat to B.
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HallelujahAl

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Re: Shand Morino
« Reply #37 on: June 17, 2009, 07:07:49 PM »

Quote
If you're stuck with 8x6 it might be worth moving the reeds around so that instead of going E-flat to E it goes B-flat to B.

I don't quite understand - where do I get the B reeds from?
AL
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IanD

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Re: Shand Morino
« Reply #38 on: June 17, 2009, 10:00:50 PM »

it alll depends on the type of music you want to play. For dance music where the emphasis is on generating good rhythm with reasonable harmony  anything more than the  facility to play the 3 chord trick is a bonus. As athe bass notes should be played 'short & crisp' and turgidity avoided at all costs then by definition none of the bass notes are going to last more than a fraction of a second so it could be argued that a lot of fancy chords  are wasted as  the punters will not even notice them being played. 

On the other hand for song accompanyment or perhaps for 'sunday best' solo playing of slower stuff  playing rich harmony with longish bass notes can ( but doesn't automatically) add to the proceedings  and may add to the players ssense of satisfaction.  There is however lot to be said for keeping it simple but well played rather than complicated & a bit iffy.

george

Playing short crisp bass notes is one way of playing good dance music (and maybe the easiest), but not the only one.

I've been asked "how do you get such punch out of the basses?" only to point out that I don't, I'm playing quite long bass notes -- so you can hear them, including crossed chords and bass runs -- and the punch is coming from the treble end, by adding in staccato chords or harmony lines over the tune, and not forgetting those things in between the notes (gaps, I think they're called).

Since all the dance teams (and dance bands) I've played with seem to rather like the result, it obviously works. But it is a lot more difficult to do than just playing short "oom-pah" style basses.

Ian
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Owen Woods

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Re: Shand Morino
« Reply #39 on: June 17, 2009, 10:43:07 PM »

Personally I use a massive mix of bass technique. I never really make a conscious decision, but sometimes it ends up being punchy unison bass (bass and chord together) or oompah or else longer notes as Ian describes. The latter is something that I need to work on, as my bass work does tend to be a bit too stabby at times.
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