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Author Topic: new to melodeon  (Read 3944 times)

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Brian McDonald

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new to melodeon
« on: March 30, 2016, 10:36:30 AM »

Hi all. I have never played a melodeon or as some call them, button accordion. I am thinking of getting a Garvey AAA 2 row  button accordion. Dont have a link but if you have the time you might google it and let me know what you think. It cost £350 which is in my price range. I like Irish folk songs and music like the Furyes and Dougie maclean the scottish singer. I like slow airs but Im not really into the Irish reels or jigs. So i guess im looking something that will cover irish folk rather than irish trad if you see what i mean. Thanks for any help.
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John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: new to melodeon
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2016, 10:49:03 AM »

HI Brian, welcome to the Melnet gang. Don't know much about garvey's so I Googled, and came up with this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIy5iVcvC5Q
It doesn't say on this video, but I'm assuming it's a semitone bax, as it's aimed at the Irish market. If you're based in Ireland, and want to play with others, then it's probably the road to go.
There are so many variables, so I advise you to have a good look round, at what's available, and choose according to what you want to do. If you want to sing with it, then you either need a chromatic boc, or one in keys you're comfortable singing in. D/G for instance, the common English tuning, I find it only possible to sing to the D scale. So there are all sorts of variations, and it's a minefield.
You'll get lots of tips from people on here who know far more than me, but I warn you, whatever box you end up buying; it won't be your last. ;)

Good luck

Sir john
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xgx

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Re: new to melodeon
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2016, 12:15:45 PM »

Hi Brian
Don't know whether these are still for sale but there are some similarities with the Garvey box:
http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,18376.0.html
http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,18235.0.html

...and a considerable saving  ;D
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Graham

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Brian McDonald

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Re: new to melodeon
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2016, 04:24:49 PM »

Thanks guys. I think i would be singing and playing at the same time...folk songs and such. I know many of the b/c  tuned melodeons are for the Irish trad stuff so maybe one tuned g/d would be better for what i want.
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Brian McDonald

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Re: new to melodeon
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2016, 04:56:48 PM »

Sorry i meant D/G..
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John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: new to melodeon
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2016, 05:54:04 PM »

D/G is not too easy to sing to, as it gives you those two keys. and most of an A scale. As I said earlier, G isn't a comfortable key to sing in.
You really need to research it fully, before you lash out on a box.
I have an A/D, and a Bb/Eb, both of which I sing with. Have a good look round, and try things out.

Sir John
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Lester

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Re: new to melodeon
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2016, 06:03:38 PM »

D/G is not too easy to sing to, as it gives you those two keys. and most of an A scale. As I said earlier, G isn't a comfortable key to sing in.
You really need to research it fully, before you lash out on a box.
I have an A/D, and a Bb/Eb, both of which I sing with. Have a good look round, and try things out.

Sir John

Think you meant D/G are not easy keys form ME to sing in. I have a number of chums who happily sing in both D and G.

Graham Spencer

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Re: new to melodeon
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2016, 06:29:13 PM »

D/G is not too easy to sing to, as it gives you those two keys. and most of an A scale. As I said earlier, G isn't a comfortable key to sing in.
You really need to research it fully, before you lash out on a box.
I have an A/D, and a Bb/Eb, both of which I sing with. Have a good look round, and try things out.

Sir John

Think you meant D/G are not easy keys form ME to sing in. I have a number of chums who happily sing in both D and G.

Yes, singing keys are a very personal thing. I'm OK with D, but G is a tad high for me. I'm happier with a C/F box, but as for many others, B♭/E♭ gives a more comfortable range. In another incarnation I play lead guitar in a blues/rock'n'roll outfit, and I find singing in that context most comfortable in either D or E.

Graham
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Among others, Saltarelle Pastourelle II D/G; Hohner 4-stop 1-rows in C & G; assorted Hohners; 3-voice German (?) G/C of uncertain parentage; lovely little Hlavacek 1-row Heligonka; B♭/E♭ Koch. Newly acquired G/C Hohner Viktoria. Also Fender Jazz bass, Telecaster, Stratocaster, Epiphone Sheraton, Charvel-Jackson 00-style acoustic guitar, Danelectro 12-string and other stuff..........

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Lester

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Re: new to melodeon
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2016, 06:50:04 PM »

One of my morris chums sings the Rochester Recruiting Sergeant, tune is Waltzing Matilda, but he sings it in Eb. I once pointed out that if he upped it just a bit I could accompany him on melodeon; he replied 'Yes, I know!'   (:) 

John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: new to melodeon
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2016, 07:01:24 PM »

Yes, indeed, I was of course, speaking personally. That is why the OP, needs to do his research.

Sir John
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: Hohner Club Modell 1. Bb/Eb, de-clubbed : Early Hohner Pressed Wood A/D : 1930's Varnished wood G/C:  Hohner Erika C/F: Bandoneon tuned D/G Pressed wood: Koch F/Bb; G/C Pre Corso

OrchardAshley90

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Re: new to melodeon
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2016, 09:43:19 PM »

Welcome to the melodeon. My family has played mainly those sorts of songs for years, dubliners, wolftones ect all those sing along types and always use D/G boxes now A/D/G. But you really got to think if your singing along with your playing that your comfortable doing so. Also if your going to be playing with others, that would decide what key your box should be in. You might require a couple of boxes for your needs
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Brian McDonald

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Re: new to melodeon
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2016, 10:25:44 PM »

Would a B/C give me the range im looking for..i mean as far as singing and playing. Maybe G would be a bit high for me, now that i think about it.
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george garside

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Re: new to melodeon
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2016, 10:39:39 PM »

Whilst a BC is chromatic i.e. has the wherewithal to play in all 12 major keys it is not easily chromatic!  The keys of B, C,G, D,A, E, are reasonably easy but the bass accompaniment, if any, is very limited.

For the 'flat' keys a CC# box has the wherewithal  for  C, C#, Ab, Eb, Bb, F using the same fingering as for  the sharp keys on a BC box.

The 3 row BCC# box is in effect both a BC aand a CC# and all 12 keys are relatively eassy  and there is usualy enough bass to cover all keys with the exeption of the 12 (stradella bass) hohner trichord  which has bass for  keys C, G, D, A, and some usable bass for F & E.

The DG box is easiest to play in its 'home keys' of D & G and has bass for both those keys. It can be played in A provided the tune doesn't have G# in it or sometimes the G# can be faked. There is some bass usable in A.

george
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Sebastian

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Re: new to melodeon
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2016, 11:52:24 PM »

Would a B/C give me the range im looking for..i mean as far as singing and playing. Maybe G would be a bit high for me, now that i think about it.
A B/C gives you the possibility to play a melody. But for the accompaniment you may want mainly chords and maybe a second melody line on the instrument. I don't know what chords are offerd on the bass side of a B/C melodeon. On a quint box (D/G, C/F, Bb/Eb, A/D, ...) they are suitable for most melody accompaniment.
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Ebor_fiddler

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Re: new to melodeon
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2016, 12:38:30 AM »

Going by my D/G, I have no trouble singing in either of these keys, but I get told off for expecting others to join in when I play in G, so I would tentatively suggest a C/F for singing ...
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Re: new to melodeon
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2016, 07:42:56 AM »

If the primary purpose of getting a box is to accompany yourself singing then the first thing to do is to know what range of keys you typically sing in.  Then get a box to suit your voice.
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Marje

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Re: new to melodeon
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2016, 09:34:33 PM »

I've just posted about this in another thread, but I really feel this needs emphasising: there is no such thing as a key that suits your voice. There are two other variables - the range of the song and where that range sits in the scale. You can take two songs in the same key, and find that even though they both cover an octave or so, they are not in the same range.
 
For example: take a song like the Wild Rover and find a comfortable key for it, for your voice. Then, staying in the same key, sing Leaving of Liverpool and you'll find it too high (or too low, if you've moved down rather than up).  This is because, in (say) the key of D,  Wild Rover spans the octave from A to A, while Leaving of Liverpool requires a range from D to top E.

In practice, the Wild Rover, spanning the octave that runs from the fifth of the scale, is a far more common pattern in folk song, which is why some people think they've found a home key for their voice. But it won't work for all songs, as any singer-guitarist will tell you. That's why guitarists use capos, and it's also why melodeon players can't accompany all songs.
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Marje

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Re: new to melodeon
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2016, 09:59:19 PM »

Marje is wise. The Wild Rover and Leaving of Liverpool are sung by Joe and I in G and D respectively. Joe does the main hollering on these and I mostly contribute harmony/discord lines on choruses. A DG box obviously handles both. The Irish Rover gives my CF box an opportunity to strut its stuff as Joe is most comfortable in C. I sing New York Girls in D and Madeleine (wee Cajun number) in G. The Back Door requires A but should be played on the pull so the D row is used. We have not yet introduced an F number but Va Pensiero, an old Italian folk song, would work if I put a bit of work in on the box accompaniment (usually bottle it and use a guitar if I'm moved to do that one). Of course, if you want to tackle Johnny Cash stuff mariachi melodeon sounds good for Ring of Fire (D for Joe but C for me) but I Walk the Line requires three different keys so it is probably best to stick to guitar and make sure you start in the right one. In any case I believe it may be easier to find right hand chords on a DG or CF etc box (esp with a few accidentals in the right place) rather than BC or C#D particularly when it goes beyond the usual I, IV an V.
Just done a 12 hour shift - hope I'm making sense.
Rod
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Marje

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Re: new to melodeon
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2016, 10:39:10 AM »

'Course you're making sense - you began by saying "Marje is wise!"

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gmatkin

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Re: new to melodeon
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2016, 02:19:16 PM »

I beg to differ, probably with all of you... I sing with my boxes quite a bit, and so does my wife - and my finding is that song tunes lie in different places in the scale, and so one should ideally have a two row of each sort... D/G, C/F, G/C, Bb/Eb and A/D. The last one might seem a bit superfluous, but it still gets reasonably regular use. Just call me Satan - melodeon playing friends often do, so I'm used to it.

Also, remember the minors. Folks who don't like minor keys on the eight-bass melodeon may have given in a bit too quickly!

G
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