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Author Topic: questions about the Castagnari Max  (Read 24521 times)

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mselic

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questions about the Castagnari Max
« on: June 06, 2016, 07:32:02 PM »

I am still considering a Castagnari Melodeon (Max) as my one-row in D.  I will have the opportunity to try one out in the near future.  Does anyone know if the button travel is limited on these?  The only Castagnari I have played is my Tommy, which has mushroom-type buttons.  Also, I'm I correct in assuming there would likely be the same type of reeds in the Max as in the Tommy?

I've heard a few people state that they've found the sound of the Castagnari Max too "polite".  I've played a Beltuna one-row which I believe has the same reeds a Max would have (voci armoniche?), and I could certainly hear the difference both in tone and volume between it and my old Quebec-made one-row which had Binci reeds.  Perhaps this is the difference people are referring to? The Beltuna sounded rather polite while the Quebec box with Bincis was loud and brash, like trumpets blaring.  I actually found after a while that the sound of the Bincis were a little on the "obnoxious" side for my liking.  This may have had something to do with the fact that I had no option but to have all four voices sounding at all times, but when I was playing it pretty much drowned out everyone else, which was not what I wanted at all.  It was at that point that I had decided the box I had was not for me.

I was also curious about a Melodie, but I'm assuming it would be the same as my other Quebec box in terms of tone and volume.

I guess I'll know better once I get a chance to try the Max, but I welcome people's opinions.  Also, I'm still wrestling with the notion of that air button that I know has dogged so many...
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Lester

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Re: questions about the Castagnari Max
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2016, 08:16:52 PM »

I am one of the anti-Max air button crowd. Be sure to play the box for a long time as just a short play may give you false sense of security.

Steve_freereeder

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Re: questions about the Castagnari Max
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2016, 08:47:34 PM »

I am still considering a Castagnari Melodeon (Max) as my one-row in D.  I will have the opportunity to try one out in the near future.  Does anyone know if the button travel is limited on these?  The only Castagnari I have played is my Tommy, which has mushroom-type buttons.

The Max has cylindrical buttons, not mushroom style. Yes, there is a buffer which limits the travel and quietens the action.

Quote
Also, I'm I correct in assuming there would likely be the same type of reeds in the Max as in the Tommy?

I think the earliest Maxs had Antonelli TAM reeds (like the early Tommys). Later ones have Voci Armoniche TAM reeds (like the current Tommys)

Quote
I've heard a few people state that they've found the sound of the Castagnari Max too "polite".  I've played a Beltuna one-row which I believe has the same reeds a Max would have (voci armoniche?), and I could certainly hear the difference both in tone and volume between it and my old Quebec-made one-row which had Binci reeds.  Perhaps this is the difference people are referring to?

Binci reeds are generally brighter and louder than VA reeds, but as you say, they can be a bit wild sounding too (some would say thuggish), if pushed. Personally I've always been very happy with VA reeds in my instruments. They do the job for me.

However, so much depends on the set-up and tuning of the instrument; it's perhaps unwise to generalise too much.

Quote
I guess I'll know better once I get a chance to try the Max, but I welcome people's opinions.  Also, I'm still wrestling with the notion of that air button that I know has dogged so many...
As always, the only real way is to try the instrument first. You will know then if you are going to get on with it.

The air button on the Max has been rather demonised, rather unfairly I think, I suspect mainly because it's positioned in a different place compared with what people might be used to on other instruments. Yes - it is different and it may take a bit of getting used to (about an hour or less in my case). Personally I never found it a problem and I know more Max players who have been happy with it than not.

The crucial thing is to get the LH bass wrist strap adjusted to suit yourself (it is adjustable on a Max) and, if you've never played a one-row much before, to get used to holding the bass-end 'growl box' securely. The bass button is played with either the little finger or the ring finger, and the chord button is played with the index finger. That leaves one or two fingers left over which are used to grip the growl box. The LH thumb is then laid flat and extended along the side of the growl box and the tip of the thumb is used to work the air button. It doesn't need much movement to make it work.
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melodeon

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Re: questions about the Castagnari Max
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2016, 09:33:45 PM »

I have owned three Castagnari Melodeons.. currently a "D" box.

It is not as brash and "in-your-face" as a Binci reeded Cajun or Quebec made box..
It is polite but not a wall flower.
It can be loud but not brash.
The button travel is limited and just right for me, as is the button height.
In comparison, the Melodie is quiet.
The air button is not like others and the growl box isn't a growl box..the base mechanism and reed set up is different than most Cajun/Quebec boxes. I have no problem with the air button. To me it is like getting in one car and then another.. same but different.. all in familiarity.
The build quality far exceeds any "Cajun" box I have played or owned. In a different way, it is on par with the furniture built by Melodie or Messervier boxes.  And unlike the majority of Cajun built boxes.. mitered, not butted corners.
The Castagnari chassis is made primarily of oak and finished in black... there were a few mahogany boxes built.
The Castagnari is smaller and lighter.

Some players have modified the keyboard to add a long spacer at the keyboard edge to increase the distance from the edge of the board to the center of the buttons and have also added a thumb groove; notably Brendan Begley  but he has massive hands and long fingers..This is no problem for me because I play the one row flat fingered.. ie no finger curl.

If you think the MAX is too polite, go to youtube and watch Brendan Begley  play. This video also clearly shows his keyboard modification.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOAIrPXh_Hc

Also, famed single row player Johnny Connolly has recently gotten a Castagnari Max after many years of Hohners and I believe one Cajun made box.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2016, 09:45:19 PM by melodeon »
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: questions about the Castagnari Max
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2016, 09:43:56 PM »

...
and the growl box isn't a growl box..the base mechanism and reed set up is different than most Cajun/Quebec boxes. ...

I called it a growl box because I thought it was the correct terminology for 'that raised bit on the left hand end of a one-row box which one holds and where the bass, chord and air buttons are situated'. 

What should I call it?
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Steve
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melodeon

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Re: questions about the Castagnari Max
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2016, 09:47:31 PM »

"Growl box" is fine.. it's just a word..

I call it the bass box.

Or for the Brits.. the  "off side"  handle thingy.
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: questions about the Castagnari Max
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2016, 01:23:06 AM »

"Growl box" is fine.. it's just a word..

I call it the bass box.

Or for the Brits.. the  "off side"  handle thingy.
(:)
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Steve
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mselic

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Re: questions about the Castagnari Max
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2016, 04:29:51 AM »

The crucial thing is to get the LH bass wrist strap adjusted to suit yourself (it is adjustable on a Max) and, if you've never played a one-row much before, to get used to holding the bass-end 'growl box' securely. The bass button is played with either the little finger or the ring finger, and the chord button is played with the index finger. That leaves one or two fingers left over which are used to grip the growl box. The LH thumb is then laid flat and extended along the side of the growl box and the tip of the thumb is used to work the air button. It doesn't need much movement to make it work.

I have been primarly a one-row player, so I'm accustomed to such boxes.  I still have a HA114G, and I notice that I tend to keep my LH braced by resting my thumb on the spot where the Max air button is, especially when playing the basses.  I've never felt comfortable gripping the front of the growl box with my middle finger; it tends to just hover while the bass spoons are played, and the box is braced by my thumb at the back as mentioned.  I'd like to think I could get comfortable changing to a different format, but we'll see.

If you think the MAX is too polite, go to youtube and watch Brendan Begley  play. This video also clearly shows his keyboard modification.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOAIrPXh_Hc

Also, famed single row player Johnny Connolly has recently gotten a Castagnari Max after many years of Hohners and I believe one Cajun made box.

Watching videos of Brendan Begley and Johnny Connolly playing the Max is exactly what got me interested in it in the first place.  I really like what I hear.  Also, thanks for the comparison between the Melodie and Max - very helpful.
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melodeon

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Re: questions about the Castagnari Max
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2016, 06:44:51 AM »

Andy Cutting plays Castagnari one rows.
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: questions about the Castagnari Max
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2016, 07:24:30 AM »

...
I still have a HA114G, and I notice that I tend to keep my LH braced by resting my thumb on the spot where the Max air button is, especially when playing the basses.  I've never felt comfortable gripping the front of the growl box with my middle finger; it tends to just hover while the bass spoons are played, and the box is braced by my thumb at the back as mentioned.  I'd like to think I could get comfortable changing to a different format, but we'll see.
...

The Max growl box is wider than the HA114 and it doesn't have those ridges along the side which I found uncomfortable after a while.
So yes - you will probably find you need to adopt a slightly different orientation with your left hand for the Max compared with the HA114. But it's not a big deal. Many other people manage OK.
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Steve
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Re: questions about the Castagnari Max
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2016, 01:26:29 PM »

Melodeon's #3 post is spot on.
I really liked playing the Max but would say it's a one row for anyone not living in LA (i.e. I mean lower Alabama, Louisiana, not LA).
It's not an "authentic" cajun box, but if you like a Tommy you will like it.
It is super small, superlight, super fast and very loud.  And very pretty.  And decent priced, especially for a Castagnari.
IMO.
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melodeon

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Re: questions about the Castagnari Max
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2016, 02:34:46 PM »

I will support that the Castagnari at $2500 USD new is a bargain compared to what you get in other one row boxes.

David Munnelly playing a Castagnari melodeon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNn0-OjpSaE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMuMvOThyiY

Were I to consider another make of one row, my first choice would be a Gaillard who will no longer make them.. I contacted him several times over the years, and he simply cannot stop producing his 2 and 3 rows to accommodate such a small niche.

A comment about:   "authentic Cajun box".
An authentic Cajun box is a box made by a Cajun.


PS  I own and very much like Hohner 112, 113, 114. I have one of each.


« Last Edit: June 07, 2016, 03:04:18 PM by melodeon »
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deltasalmon

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Re: questions about the Castagnari Max
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2016, 03:48:03 PM »

David Munnelly playing a Castagnari melodeon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNn0-OjpSaE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMuMvOThyiY

These videos make me wonder why I ever want anything aside from a one-row. There's so much you can do on one.
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mselic

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Re: questions about the Castagnari Max
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2016, 04:21:43 PM »

Did anyone notice that the Castagnari melodeon that David Munnelly was playing in those videos had four bass buttons? Must have been a customization...sure would be nice!
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Re: questions about the Castagnari Max
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2016, 06:53:46 PM »

Now that you mention it, it actually looks like there are 5. Unless it has a front air button?
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Re: questions about the Castagnari Max
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2016, 08:58:49 PM »

David Munnelly playing a Castagnari melodeon.

I notice he is playing with shoulder straps. I hate hate hate the thumbstrap. I tried a used Max at the Button Box ($1999, oh if only I could!) and the difference, for me, playing it with thumbstraps (a form of torture) or shoulder strap (a thing of beauty, wonders to behold) was amazing.
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Re: questions about the Castagnari Max
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2016, 09:03:49 PM »

Those seem to be unisonoric basses (same on push and pull) - and I don't think there are any chords.  Very interesting!
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Re: questions about the Castagnari Max
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2016, 09:22:49 PM »


Were I to consider another make of one row, my first choice would be a Gaillard who will no longer make them.. I contacted him several times over the years, and he simply cannot stop producing his 2 and 3 rows to accommodate such a small niche.


Never saw one of those but sure would like to!
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mselic

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Re: questions about the Castagnari Max
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2016, 04:39:31 AM »

Now that you mention it, it actually looks like there are 5. Unless it has a front air button?

Good thing one of us can count... ::)
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Re: questions about the Castagnari Max
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2016, 05:02:21 AM »

Actually... Actually... I've just bought the 2nd hand MAX from the Button Box. It's currently sitting in customs in Sydney Australia, while they figure out how much to charge me for an accordion.

I'm currently playing a 1950's 114 in D, kindly refurbished for me by Theo. A great sounding instrument, albeit a little clunky in that inimitable Hohner way.

I'll still be playing the Hohner however. The Castagnari is for my 11 year old son, currently thundering away on a D/G Lilliput.
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