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Author Topic: Could my bellows just be too short?  (Read 4435 times)

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Angienever

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Could my bellows just be too short?
« on: July 29, 2016, 05:19:02 PM »

I bought a small melodeon about five weeks ago and have diligently been practicing 30-60 minutes a day.  The one I got is a two row G-C diatonic made by Loveri.  This is my first time playing this type of instrument (I played double bass and electric bass for years), and I am loving the learning but am getting frustrated by the whole situation of playing the bass. 

I am always out of air, and nothing I seem to do makes it any better.  I have tried some of the bellows stretching techniques you all have shared on here and I got a little relief, but I am still a long way away from making it through the passages in even beginner books.  (I have been working with the little books by Henry Doktorski.)  I went so far as to count my bellows, and it looks like I have 16 while Henry has 20.

Yesterday I went to a local music store and tried to play a busted old wooden one row, and it sounded way out of tune but the bellows blew up like a balloon and seemed to stay spacious.  It made me feel like not even practicing today (but I did).

I am getting the idea that the bass hand is the trickiest part for beginners and realize this could be a beginner frustration, but is it possible that my bellows truly are too short?

Thanks in advance for any help or advice.   :-\
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playandteach

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Re: Could my bellows just be too short?
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2016, 05:32:03 PM »

Best advice I can think of is to get someone to try it for you (and you to try theirs). Could you tell us whereabouts you are based?
I've just had a similar problem, and will resolve it that way myself.
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george garside

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Re: Could my bellows just be too short?
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2016, 05:48:02 PM »

16 pleat bellows is very common on 2 row melodeons and is used on the extremely popular hohner pokerwork, Erica and double ray boxes.

Its all about getting the hang of using the air button  on which the thumb should always   lightly rest sso as to be instantly usable. 

If the bellows are going out and get beyond the hallway point watch out for a 'push' note and press the air button at the same time as playing the note. Even a little 'flick' on the air button will move the bellows 2 or 3 inches.

The same applies if the bellows are getting too near closed  use the air button while playing a 'pull 'note

At first you may lose the sound of the note you are trying to play whilst using the air button . if that is the case try playing one long note on the pull whilst having little presses at the air button until you can use the air button without losing the note.

Do the same on the push

george
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John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: Could my bellows just be too short?
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2016, 06:30:42 PM »

You may also have air leaks. Try holding your box up by one end only, and if it opens out quite quickly it's losing air somewhere. Most melodeons, open out when you do this, but very slowly.


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Angienever

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Re: Could my bellows just be too short?
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2016, 06:39:58 PM »

Best advice I can think of is to get someone to try it for you (and you to try theirs). Could you tell us whereabouts you are based?
I've just had a similar problem, and will resolve it that way myself.

Thank you.  I have been trying to connect with a local button box player but we haven't been able to meet yet.  I'm in Columbus, OH.

You may also have air leaks. Try holding your box up by one end only, and if it opens out quite quickly it's losing air somewhere. Most melodeons, open out when you do this, but very slowly.

Thanks for the suggestion.  I just tried this, and it moves extremely slowly, almost like it's not going to open at all.  I think it's air tight.

Its all about getting the hang of using the air button  on which the thumb should always   lightly rest sso as to be instantly usable. 
george

This sounds like something I could work on, but I'm not sure it will always work.  For example, I'm trying to play the song "Drink to Me Only with Thine Eyes," which has 11 push notes in a row over five measures.  I am out of air after the 5th note with no pulls in sight.  I can get through the sequence if I'm just playing the right hand, but can't even come close when I'm playing the left as well.


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Matthew B

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Re: Could my bellows just be too short?
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2016, 07:06:20 PM »

You can also try switching rows for some notes.  If you're playing a box with the standard accidentals half of the notes in the home keys are available in both directions.  On a G/C you'll find the G is a push note on both rows and the A is a draw note on both rows.  The F# and F are draw notes on the G and C rows respectively.  Ignoring the accidentals for a moment, this leaves you with B, C, D, and E available in both directions over a couple of octaves.  A bit of jumping between rows can give you a chance to change bellows direction if you're running out of either arm or puff. 
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Grape Ape

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Re: Could my bellows just be too short?
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2016, 07:17:36 PM »

I had this problem quite a bit when I first started playing.  Now, it rarely happens, but can still be an issue when first learning a new tune.  As above, the air button is absolutely the key- even on songs that seem to play almost entirely on the pull, there is always that one note or phrase that can be used to get the bellows shut again. 

It is exciting to see a fellow Ohioan on Melnet.  I am a bit South of Cleveland, and if you ever find yours lf up this way, you are welcome to swing by and try any of my ever growing number of boxes.  It seems to me that even most smaller bellows are capable of extending as far as the arm can, and I can't imagine the point of bellows that would stretch further.   That said, some just feel better than others and seem to hold more air..
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Grape Ape

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Re: Could my bellows just be too short?
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2016, 07:19:40 PM »

Another thing I have found is that on some tunes it works better to play the left hand buttons sort of staccato like so as not to gulp air.

AND- i have sometimes caught myself flicking that air button for no particular reason, on the pull or push when it wasn't needed, and eliminating that (which i still do on some tunes where it isn't a problem) often fixes the problem.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2016, 07:22:52 PM by Grape Ape »
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Theo

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Re: Could my bellows just be too short?
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2016, 07:34:33 PM »

What you are experiencing is very common for a new player.  As you get more fluent in your playing the bellows problem will gradually disappear.  Just keep working at it and you should begin to see improvement.  Some tunes are easier than others so it might be worth spreading your efforts over a small number of tunes.
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Graham Spencer

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Re: Could my bellows just be too short?
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2016, 11:09:46 PM »

Just to add my two penn'orth... my Hohner HA114 in G has only 14 folds (though my C, pitched higher, has for some reason 16) and it does take a lot of practice with the air valve to keep enough wind "on tap", especially with all 4 voices in play. 16 folds should be fine - as others have said, it will come with time.

Cheers
Graham
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Angienever

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Re: Could my bellows just be too short?
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2016, 01:02:26 AM »

Thanks for all your responses.  These were all really helpful.  I was feeling bummed because I really like playing and I really like the accordion I have, and I didn't want to think I'd have to invest in another to keep having fun.  I am getting more comfortable all the time and these tips will all help.  And I got my Milleret/Pignol books today!   :|||:
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playandteach

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Re: Could my bellows just be too short?
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2016, 08:30:16 AM »

Good luck with the MP books. I got 2 a month ago and made good progress before taking the extra understanding into writing some tunes. I expect to use them intensely but sporadically. They have fantastic advice about variety of left hand usage that will help with air.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2016, 03:17:42 PM by playandteach »
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Steve C.

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Re: Could my bellows just be too short?
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2016, 03:01:02 PM »

Agree with P&T that MP will help.  Especially the octave exercises they start you out with will get you into push/pull playing right away, then later into runs of pull and/or push.
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Steve C.

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Re: Could my bellows just be too short?
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2016, 03:23:46 PM »

I also like this site:
http://diatonique-amateurs.pagesperso-orange.fr
If your French is as bad as mine, run it in Firefox or Chrome and the translation is decent.
There is a page or two on air management, with some exercizes.
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Malcolm Clapp

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Re: Could my bellows just be too short?
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2016, 03:27:37 PM »

Many beginners I have come across play slowly, which is understandable, but also tend to hold each button down for far too long whilst searching for the next note/chord. A sure way to run out of air. Try playing a tune in short phrases (maybe two bars at a time) and get each phrase up to speed before putting them all together. Maybe try tunes with which you are familiar; that should give you a decent idea of the required tempo and work towards that.

Good luck; it will come!
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playandteach

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Re: Could my bellows just be too short?
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2016, 06:51:57 PM »

but also tend to hold each button down for far too long whilst searching for the next note/chord.
I still do! and it is really easy for the buttons to change places with each other when I play really short (I guess it is just a different muscle memory - but it does feel like the buttons are playing the three card trick).
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Martin P

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Re: Could my bellows just be too short?
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2016, 08:14:08 PM »

Try playing notes as short as possible, sticatto in style, and take finger completely off each button before playing next note, even if pressing the same button for next note. Also, by use of air button, keep bellows as nearly closed as possible. This gives much better control overall. You may see many players with bellows fully extended. This is NOT good technique as is mainly for show.
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Re: Could my bellows just be too short?
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2016, 08:35:12 PM »

Also, by use of air button, keep bellows as nearly closed as possible.
This is, in my opinion, not good advice. Most major key tunes will have more push notes than pull so having the 'bellows as nearly closed as possible' will almost certainly lead to problems. You need to have the bellows extended to such distance that you can perform the next set of blow notes before running out of air, in some tunes this can require a big handful of bellows before you are able to refill on any suck notes. The inverse of this is true for most minor key tunes as they have a bias towards suck notes.

So, don't extend the bellows to any extremes but be aware of where the tune is going and the requirement for air to get there.

george garside

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Re: Could my bellows just be too short?
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2016, 10:33:04 PM »

I agree with both Martin and Lester!

Keeping the bellows as 'tight' as possible  is fine for an experienced player and  in my opinion it does indeed allow better control.

Keeping the bellows reasonably well out  enables a beginner or less experienced player  to avoid nasty accidents such as running out of air in the middle of a tune.

In the real world of playing both techniques have their place  i.e keeping the bellows as tight as possible most of the time for good control whilst being able to judge in advance the precise point when greater extension is needed to avoid the aforementioned 'nasty accident'

george
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playandteach

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Re: Could my bellows just be too short?
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2016, 11:36:48 PM »

There's a statistic about guessing the number of sweets in the jar - apparently the best answer is to add up all the previous answers and divide by the number of guesses. It is supposed to be uncannily accurate.
I don't mean to suggest that the advice given here is guesswork, I really don't. It is a mass of experience and expertise, but it does require to be sifted.
I'm sure if you stick around and try everything you'll find that the problem has morphed into an entirely different problem - such as what counts as musical phrasing or the ability to stay in time.
The learning is for the long run and you are doing everything right so far - self analysis plus seeking advice. I feel I should end with 'Live long and prosper' or 'May the force be with you'.
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