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[stevejay]

On a 2 row, what key do you start in. Tell me if you're dg or gc.

Thanks

[Lester]

Not sure if it is doable of a straight 4th apart two row.

For example if you start in Gmaj the B music is in Fmaj, the C in Bmaj and the D back in G maj. So even if you have all the accidentals the basses will not be there..

Other more clever people may be along to prove I know nothing

ps Sharon Shannon plays it on a half step box of some sort

[Stiamh]

I don't, but if I did, I'd play it starting in Dmaj. This is clearly possible on a C#/D as Jackie Daly demonstrated on the Patrick Street recording. (Perhaps not a straight two-row by some definitions.)

I had a stab at it before I had been playing very long and found it tough because of relentless in-and-outing in one bit, and four bars all on the pull in another (^cGEG cGGG x 4 - it can't have occurred to me to use the push c#). I think I could tame it better now but am unlikely to try. :)

 

[Chris Ryall]

been trying it, on and off, in session friendly D on what is essentially a D/G for years … since we found that harmonium that still resides in the porch of my last house!

It remains on my "too hard" list, but nor do I ever hear it in the sessions I get to, mainly English, European and swing repertoire.

Interesting to hear that it lies well on a C#D, as its diminished scale B music is by some way the easier bit for me! Is T4FH now a full part of the "Irish" repertoire, or just a virtuoso piece for concerts?

[Stiamh]

Definitely NOT part of the standard Irish repertoire - a gimmick tune, really. Depending on the session likely to elicit rolling of eyes or stronger reactions of displeasure. Also a bit past its sell-by date, I think. I haven't heard anyone play it a session for many years, but then I don't get out very much.

[rees]

Definitely NOT part of the standard Irish repertoire - a gimmick tune, really. Depending on the session likely to elicit rolling of eyes or stronger reactions of displeasure. Also a bit past its sell-by date, I think. I haven't heard anyone play it a session for many years, but then I don't get out very much.

LOL 

[stevejay]

I don't find it gimmicky, it's just not really meant for a 2 row melodeon and quickly points out the limitations.

Some parts work out fine, it seems like a good filler/variation on for some other tune. It's the type of tune you can quote, but not play in its entirety on a 2 row.

I may come up with things to play around it, there are no rules.

[James Fitton]

My band plays this pretty regularly at ceilidhs, and it goes down very well. I think it's one of those tunes that many non-folkies half recognise, as it's been used in adverts and suchlike, and there's always a ready market for tunes people half-recognise. I have to confess, however, that I play this on my PA, not my melodeon, as it sits much too uncomfortably on a D/G box, even with lots of accidentals and reversals available. I've tried numerous times to switch over, and essentially given up... Mind you, there's a clue in the title of the tune! Maybe someone out there should write Music for a Found Melodeon....

[smiley]

I remember this tune being played in a wild session in Co. Sligo where everyone whooped it up at the key changes until we dissolved into laughter - great craic!  But I'll just stick to playing it on the tenor banjo.

[Chris Ryall]

in a sense "music for a found melodeon" is our topic, James. The *US word "melodeon" describes exactly what Simon Jeffes called a "harmonium" when he came across it in a Tokyo alley. Don't know what word they use there but the US influence is pretty strong?

*I found a tatty old "melodeon" myself in the museum at Syracuse last year, complete with a Shaker seat. It was labled as such and dearly in need of being played 

[Boyen]

This tune is played a lot in the Netherlands, many sessions as well. The older traditional folks might not like it ( ) but hard to argue that it's not a great tune.

I play it on C#/D; Usually played in D->C->F->D  , so a D/G/Acc will be a requirement I guess?

[Chris Ryall]

Had a go yesterday. The structure (like all Jeffes stuff) is actually simple.

Nice rhytmic twidddle in D

2nd time C nat so it has modulated to D minor … [ed] temporarily

The 3rd bit in F is therefore "same notes" = Relative major

The crazy turnaround section is all "cuts" out of the Ab diminished scale,  a standard jazzers trick of substituting that for an A7 dominant. So we are still in D, but on its dominant chord. pulling out major chords from the dim scale is "modal substitution".

… so no way is this a straightforward diationic tune. Utterly tonal So on a 2 row I guess the "what works" rule applies?

[rees]

Had a go yesterday. The structure (like all Jeffes stuff) is actually simple.

Nice rhytmic twidddle in D

2nd time C nat so it has modulated to D minor

The 3rd bit in F is therefore "same notes" = Relative major

The crazy turnaround section is all "cuts" out of the Ab diminished scale,  a standard jazzers trick of substituting that for an A7 dominant. So we are still in D, but on its dominant chord. pulling out major chords from the dim scale is "modal substitution".

… so no way is this a straightforward diationic tune. Utterly tonal So on a 2 row I guess the "what works" rule applies?

As usual, I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, Chris 

[squeezy]

I love the original recording by the Penguin Café Orchestra - in fact I've enjoyed it far longer than I have been playing the melodeon!  That performance of it is so relaxed, hypnotic and organic - really zen music.

When I first heard it played at a million miles an hour in a session it made me chuckle, nothing more.  If it's played at a session I'm in I play it in D because that's the key it's invariably in and leave out the B part (which is in F - playable on a 2.5 row but with quite clumsy fingering)

[Chris Ryall]

Works for me because I think in chords, Rees. There is a real cadence in this one, though "second go" this morning the move into F scale (F is a musical note ) is only a tease … he comes back to a D major chord before the full on F bit.

Brilliant construction, and the driving rhythm … yes something truly hypnotic there. But it also truly fights aganst the 2 diationic scales on any quint configured box. Thanks the sqeezy for the tip on leaving a chunk out. As ever a bit of fakery works wonders?

[squeezy]

As ever ... choosing to play nothing in a session when your contribution will either have no effect (or risks spoiling the tune for everyone else) is the right decision!  If only everyone else agreed with me on that ...

[rees]

Works for me because I think in chords, Rees. There is a real cadence in this one, though "second go" this morning the move into F scale (F is a musical note ) is only a tease … he comes back to a D major chord before the full on F bit.

Brilliant construction, and the driving rhythm … yes something truly hypnotic there. But it also truly fights aganst the 2 diationic scales on any quint configured box. Thanks the sqeezy for the tip on leaving a chunk out. As ever a bit of fakery works wonders?

I too think in chords, it's just your language I don't understand!

[pbsalt]

"As ever ... choosing to play nothing in a session when your contribution will either have no effect (or risks spoiling the tune for everyone else) is the right decision!  If only everyone else agreed with me on that ..."

Hurrah -  wish more people subscribed to this - should be drummed into everyone before allowed to play in a session.

[Mike Carney]

As ever ... choosing to play nothing in a session when your contribution will either have no effect (or risks spoiling the tune for everyone else) is the right decision!  If only everyone else agreed with me on that ...

Agree with this. Also, a gimmicky "clever" or virtuoso tune that only one person can play doesn't really move things on for the session, leaving people just waiting for the player to finish. Not really in the spirit of sessioning IMHO, which I believe is more about playing together, at least a few of us.
M

[Chris Ryall]

There is the "clever" tune (do you mean "showing off"?) … I quite agree. Are there are also those who insist on original keys (eg J@tS in Gm). Nice once in a while, but please not on every outing, and it should be kept fairly brief unless the session has faded and you are filling a gap.

There is also the tune that you are trying to promote, something novel or from elsewhere. This not always  "clever", just unpracticed, but let's face it sessioneers can be pretty conservative and some haven't moved into new music in a dacade.

I think the latter is a different issue, but as always sensitivity is needed. In this respect I've been trying to promote Fred Paris's Autrefois as the 'right' medley with Canal en Octobre for some 20 years, but no one seems to catch on, and some continue to medley it tectonically with some 17th century English (non) Scottiche.  No luck, they just all listen …. and come in when Canal starts.
But it isn't intended as "clever" - just what I heard at source in Embraud 18 years ago,  so arguably the "right" intro. 

Dare I remind melodeonistas that the rest of Europe also do a very different "B" music to the Belgian "Bear Dance" that some 1970's traveller had clearly mis-remembered? Again, "different" but not "clever", other than trying to get it right. So it is … complicated?