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[Thrupenny Bit]

Af'noon All,
I'm just tidying up a tune after some minor surgery.
It has an A,B and C parts, with both the B and C  parts in the key of C.
With some chromatic runs in it, I've tried to see where the B and C parts fit best, and they drop into the key of G  and D respectively. I dissected each part, transposed it using the 'transpose' ability in abcExplorer and re-assembled the A B and C parts so it hangs together and is playable on my DG box.

I notice that it has a couple of 'nonsense' runs in it
the 'C' part of the tune, in the key of D had the following notes -  B#, C,D and then a bar later F E# F
i.e. " B#" and then "E#"

I have manually corrected this to Cnat, C#, D and F(#), Fnat and F(#) and they sound correct within the tune.

Is it an 'oddity', for want of a better word, that the programme transposes and gives these notes, or have I got it wrong here?
Thoughts please!

I did enjoy playing around and transposing the tune though, found it quite satisfying!
thanks peeps
Q

[Pete Dunk]

I never use Explorer to transpose because it always messes up. Easy ABC is slick and accurate at transposing, never misses a beat. It has other useful features too. I've yet to find any single piece of software that does everything well, but they are all free!

[Jack Campin]

I use BarFly's transposition utility a lot, and I have just learned to anticipate and work round its bugs, which are similar to what you've found in whatever program you use. When you come close to closing the circle of fifths, to say things go pearshaped would be an insult to pears.

I believe this is a consequence of using MIDI codes as an intermediate representation.

Tables for transposition were first constructed by Boethius around 400AD.  That may be a bit too recent to expect software devopers to catch up.

[Thrupenny Bit]

Hi Pete, I feel comfortable with abcExplorre so that's why I stick to it.
Maybe next time I'll try easy abc .
To be fair I've transposed other tunes with explorer and it's gone well.

Jack yes there's still time for us to catch up with our modern inventions 

But programme quirks apart is my assumption that B# = C and E# = Fnat correct?
Q

[Lester]

But programme quirks apart is my assumption that B# = C and E# = Fnat correct?

Yep

[vof]

Hi Pete, I feel comfortable with abcExplorre so that's why I stick to it.
Maybe next time I'll try easy abc .
To be fair I've transposed other tunes with explorer and it's gone well.

I use ABCexplorer too and while it generally works well, I have seen oddities with transposed music though not the type you've seen Q. I'm interested in looking into why ABCexplorer is producing your results. Are you prepared to post your ABC for the original C part in C and the transposed result in D which shows the odd notes. I wonder whether it is because the original ABC contained accidentals. (When posting, I see that lachenal74693 has got in before me and seems to be suggesting something similar.)

Vince

[Thrupenny Bit]

Lester: definitive! Ta 

Lachenal and vof: thanks for your thought.
I've previously picked Pete's brains over another matter with this tune and reminded me that I've taken this from a published manuscript so I'm reluctant to produce anything here.

Essentially, so long as my understanding, now confirmed by Lester, is correct, then I'm happy.
Thanks for the link though, interesting stuff
Q

[Pete Dunk]

Hi Pete, I feel comfortable with abcExplorer so that's why I stick to it.
Maybe next time I'll try easy abc .

I'm not suggesting that you change editors, simply that you should try using Easy ABC to perform a one off function when you need it.

Notes like E# instead of Fnat are of course correct in some circumstances, as is calling a G note 'F double sharp', but the reason is deep down in music theory where our simple dance tunes never venture. Let sleeping dogs lie! 

Save

[Thrupenny Bit]

Roger: might be feeding it fish and chips for all I know 
Sorry mate, I have no idea.
I have a new version a couple of months old, of explorer, and typed in the original score myself. I then asked it to transpose. That is the limit of my knowledge.

Pete: yes, don't worry, that's what I thought you meant 

I do understand  there are deeper meanings to all this, and we're just ti ddling along the surface.
I can assure you my sleeping dog is lying.....
Except it's a cat 

Thanks all
Q

[Jack Campin]

Notes like E# instead of Fnat are of course correct in some circumstances, as is calling a G note 'F double sharp', but the reason is deep down in music theory where our simple dance tunes never venture.

If you encounter a 19th century English concertina or a Cajun melodeon there is a good chance it will be in just intonation or meantone where these distinctions are clearly audible.

[Thrupenny Bit]

Yes Jack, I've been told that too but never knowingly played an English concertina with it.
I have a really old Rock Chidley ( Wheatstones nephew who was his book keeper ) but it is so old and never a good box that it's impossible to tell. It is of an age when it would/should have been built like that.
Q