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Author Topic: Manfrini  (Read 9713 times)

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pgroff

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Re: Manfrini
« Reply #40 on: September 25, 2016, 06:27:54 PM »



I think I may have vaguely heard mention of Peter Cashman before he died, but I never had any contact, nor any dealings, with him. However, I have since (via the internet) found myself advising Suzanne about the selling of a couple of concertinas he had, and getting a better price than she was expecting...

It was only yesterday, though, that this Giulietti 2-row was first mentioned to me, because I posted a link on facebook about the North Clare home of my dear, and late, friend (concertina and button accordion player) Micilín Conlon having been finally put on the market, 22 years after he died.

The connection being that (Suzanne believes) the C#/D reeds in the Giulietti came out of a Paolo Soprani of Micilín's that Peter bought! It was an old mid-1950's one that Micilin would supposedly leave in culverts rather than bring home on the bike in the rain, which came to the US with David Levine. Apparently it was Peter's favourite red Paolo, and he replaced the rusty C#/D reeds that were in it and made it B/C.

Small world!  :o

Hi Stephen,

I never met Peter in person either but I did send him a lot of customers and we often traded parts and corresponded. I have that whole story from him so I think it's accurate, as far as he knew. The Giulietti is a copy of a late period red 2-coupler Paolo so not a prime period box; Peter had ventilated the grille a bit with extra wave-shaped cutouts, and I think it was sold with the C#D 50s reeds. I appreciate that you were able to help Suzanne with those english concertinas. I've been sharing with her all that I know about Peter's substantial collection of parts and projects as she markets them. It's too bad that the market for these has been soft in the US in recent years. Let's all get more young folks playing! That's the best option for the music and for the instruments, to say nothing of how great it'd be for those young players themselves.

PG
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pgroff

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Re: Manfrini
« Reply #41 on: September 25, 2016, 06:41:47 PM »



Aside from the Button Box people I think the only people working on diatonic boxes on the US east coast now are John Nolan and our own Paul Groff (who recommended I go to Peter), who do work as a sideline.  We could really use a college for accordion repair!  Even the PA people say so.  Of course in Ireland you at least have a handful of repair people.

Hi Kevin,

Take me off that list! I wish I could be working on instruments, but I haven't had a shop or space or tools or time for about 13 years, since moving to Florida. In the mean time I've gotten back into teaching and research in Biology, a field that also seems to need me.

There are other shops and individual repairmen around the US East Coast besides the Button Box and John Nolan, including Michael Usui, Liberty Bellows, Arthur Welch, and more. Hard to recommend that a young person go into this trade. As I mentioned above, really the future of these traditions and these instruments would be best safeguarded by more outreach to the young. Encourage them to love the music and the instrument, and teach them to play. Then if there is sufficient demand for accordion repair work at fair wages, that will naturally draw people into that profession.

PG
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KLR

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Re: Manfrini
« Reply #42 on: September 26, 2016, 05:24:30 AM »

Encourage young people, that'd be great, but here in Oregon the only people who've taken up this music in this century seem to be middle agers who never really seem to have much rabid enthusiasm for what they do.  There are a few good musos too who aren't so creaky but they've moved here from elsewhere...I've had a lot of chats with a friend of mine who learned her stuff at the Atlanta Comhaltas branch that it'd be great to have some kind of school of music but nothing has come of it.  As for the veteran musicians I'm pretty young at 45, and playing the stuff 21 years now.  It seems like there was a whole raft of people taking an interest in Irish music here in the 80s, afterwards, not so much. 

This is just to get people playing, never mind having enough to justify having someone working on these things.  About the only good repairman for us in the Pacific NW is Michael Arralde, who usually works on PA/CBA but likes to work on diatonic stuff too as it happens.  Guess he can have the monopoly for the time being.  He works on various genres of push pull box too, was talking with about things like the Steirisch Harmonika.
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Pearse Rossa

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Re: Manfrini
« Reply #43 on: September 27, 2016, 02:38:07 AM »

I know box players who have ditched Gaillard, Saltarelle, Briggs, Paddy Clancy and Paolo Soprani boxes in favour of a new Manfrini. I know one guy who parted with his 'old grey' in preference to a Manfrini!
So, they are popular and fashionable. The ones I have tried sound ok and play well but I don't particularly like the look of them.
Personally, I wouldn't swap my own Paolo for all the Manfrinis in China!

As regards the op's question;

Who is the actual maker of "MANFRINI" accordeons, specifically the new replicants of the early Paolo Soprani ?

Is it Serenellini ?

I wouldn't have a clue and I don't particularly care either but I think it's a perfectly valid question.
I do wonder though whether the 'Sean Garvey Paolo' might be related in some way?
If you were to combine the best traits of the two, then you just might have a box worth getting excited about.
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triskel

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Re: Manfrini
« Reply #44 on: September 27, 2016, 03:18:59 AM »

Glad you could help Suzanne out, I felt a bit sheepish paying only $500 for my 3 row Paolo.  Maybe that's the going rate for a box like that though, with its stepped keyboard and teeny tiny useless air button.

It sounds fair enough for the one you bought, which is evidently housed in a body that (like many of them) was designed more for a Continental chromatic system box.

melodeon

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Re: Manfrini
« Reply #45 on: September 27, 2016, 02:39:07 PM »

"I wouldn't have a clue and I don't particularly care either but I think it's a perfectly valid question."

I "did" care and thought it was a valid question, particularly for $4000 USD and upward.



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pgroff

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Re: Manfrini
« Reply #46 on: September 27, 2016, 03:13:58 PM »

"I wouldn't have a clue and I don't particularly care either but I think it's a perfectly valid question."

I "did" care and thought it was a valid question, particularly for $4000 USD and upward.

I suspect the difference is that players in Ireland have had opportunities to play these Manfrinis first hand (in different tuning variants etc).  I've heard that for many players, that experience has sold them.  Also it makes sense that some players would prefer something else.  But if "melodeon" might have to shop remotely, he might be seeking all possible relevant evidence about the quality of the instrument so I can well understand his curiosity about the source of all the parts.

Outsourcing, outworking, rebadging, and custom orders built by one manufacturer for sale by another business have been integral to the music instrument business for centuries, and some of the best instruments I've owned have had such a mixed or uncertain pedigree. But whenever possible I like to try them first!

PG
« Last Edit: October 01, 2016, 08:22:03 PM by pgroff »
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Lars

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Re: Manfrini
« Reply #47 on: September 27, 2016, 08:55:46 PM »

The Garvey 'Paolo' was made in collaboration with the modern Paolo Soprani company, thus allowing the name to be used. They got pretty close, but the craze seems to have faded quickly. And when they started making them in red, with pull-stops, wood/gold finish, and now with push-couplers on the bass side, I think they've distanced themselves even further from the original intent - to get as close to the old boxes as possible.

The Manfrinis have something about them that brings up the name "Alessandrini" (sp?) in my mind. A small, family owned firm making parts and whole boxes for others out of Castelfidardo. They were involved with the Boxeens (J. Coogan's new-that-tries-to-get-close-to-the-old boxes) too. Just a thought. I heard a clip of a wet tuned C/C# one played by Derek Hickey that sounded pretty nice.
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Pearse Rossa

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Re: Manfrini
« Reply #48 on: September 27, 2016, 11:41:02 PM »

The Garvey 'Paolo' was made in collaboration with the modern Paolo Soprani company, thus allowing the name to be used. They got pretty close, but the craze seems to have faded quickly. And when they started making them in red, with pull-stops, wood/gold finish, and now with push-couplers on the bass side, I think they've distanced themselves even further from the original intent - to get as close to the old boxes as possible.

That's a good synopsis of the whole affair.
Some of us were pretty excited about the concept at the outset but ultimately ended up disappointed.
I wouldn't blame the 'Paolo Soprani company' entirely though (not suggesting that you are).
They only did what they were instructed to do.
I would have a lot to say on this subject but this is a public forum and I don't want to risk being sued.
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KLR

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Re: Manfrini
« Reply #49 on: September 28, 2016, 08:22:19 AM »

Glad you could help Suzanne out, I felt a bit sheepish paying only $500 for my 3 row Paolo.  Maybe that's the going rate for a box like that though, with its stepped keyboard and teeny tiny useless air button.

It sounds fair enough for the one you bought, which is evidently housed in a body that (like many of them) was designed more for a Continental chromatic system box.

Yeah, I used to fanatically follow anything in the way of wood flutes on eBay but have never shopped for old boxes the same way so aren't really on to what the going rates are.  A friend of mine was irked that I didn't tell him about a 9 coupler D/D# Paolo that sold for about the same, I wouldn't mine owning such a beast myself.

Boxes are a lot more expensive than the German/American/French flutes I used to pick up, which the Irish players had no interest in, as they aren't, in the words of Richard Wagner in re:  Boehm flutes, "cannons."   ;D  The English style flutes everyone has to have now were an evolutionary step on the way to that.  So many great flute players used to just play whatever crossed their path though - John McKenna and Roger Sherlock can be seen with German type instruments with ivory headjoints.  Fashion and all that.  Anyway I used to just buy these cheap flutes for chickenfeed, $150 was a lot.  Wish semitone boxes could be had for that little.

I noticed in the old catalogs Paolo called my box the Eighty III.  Indeed it doesn't look like they did anything more than put B/C/C# reeds in a CBA body and call it good. 

From what I've heard the Excelsior company in the old days was exceptional in building PAs entirely from scratch, most every other firm with any rep outsourced a lot of the parts.  Even Hohner diatonics often were of Swiss build, correct?  Was that a Swiss Hohner factory?  Forget the details. 
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triskel

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Re: Manfrini
« Reply #50 on: September 28, 2016, 07:54:37 PM »

Even Hohner diatonics often were of Swiss build, correct?  Was that a Swiss Hohner factory?  Forget the details.

There's a lot to be learned about Hohner's activities in neutral Switzerland, using a subsidiary there as a front for trading in wartime, and some of their post-war activities there may have been linked to getting around trade embargos too.

After World War 2 various Hohner models were made by "Accordina Inc." (Hohner subsidiary Accordina AG, of Bolligen, Bern), who made some 1600 (pre-Erica and Erica) models, the Amatonas, Gaelics, Club IIIM models, and some PAs too, to a high standard.

Accordina AG since became Hohner-Sonor AG, and the firm is still based in Bolligen, Bern.

Edited to add: P.S. Don't get me started on flutes...
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