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[Jack Campin]

As for abcm2ps, I don't think it does much that isn't in the ABC 2.1 standard.

That's because that "standard" was dictated by Gonzato and Moine.  It's simply the abcm2ps manual, complete with all the misfeatures that no player program could ever implement.  It's a "standard" in the same spirit as Microsoft's.

With the King's Morisco, the dynamic and expression marks are not really doable in ABC (particularly the hairpins, which are an unfortunate omission and could have been included 10 years ago) but the 4-part texture is a doddle.

[Steve_freereeder]

With the King's Morisco, the dynamic and expression marks are not really doable in ABC (particularly the hairpins, which are an unfortunate omission and could have been included 10 years ago) but the 4-part texture is a doddle.

Well maybe, if you like editing 'blind' in ABC, but I wouldn't attempt it, when I have MuseScore available. I use it very much as a real-time transcription/composition tool. I can view everything as real music on the screen in front of me; I can add or edit by direct keyboard input, or cutting-and-pasting notes or drag-and-drop notes. I can instantly see and hear the effect of changing something, e.g. a note in a chord, or by doubling an existing note in a different octave or with a different instrument, etc. Ultimately, when I am happy with my full score, I can instantly extract and print individual playing parts.

But at a pinch, if somebody posts a bar or two of ABC to illustrate something here I can read it, whereas I'd have to be very motivated indeed to download a Musescore attachment and open it to find out what it was.

Agreed, it is possible to 'read' directly from ABC code with a bit of practice and if you can hear music in your head. I do it myself and there have been previous discussions on this forum on just that very thing.

However, generally speaking, if you are sent a tune in ABC, you still have to copy-and-paste it into an ABC editor of some sort in order to view/play the notes. If you are sent a tune in MuseScore you click on the file and it opens MuseScore and it's there instantly viewable and playable. Not a lot of difference in my mind...

[Roger Hare]

...That's because that "standard" was dictated by Gonzato and Moine...It's a "standard" in
the same spirit as Microsoft's.

Ouch! Are you saying that Guido Gonzato's ABC manual is a bit 'biassed' towards exploiting
abcm2ps functionality which uses ABC features which are strictly outwith the ABC standard?

So far, I've been relying fairly heavily on the Gonzato manual. Perhaps I'd better start using
the standard 'standard' (http://abcnotation.com/wiki/abc:standard:v2.1 ?) a bit more than I
have been doing? As an ABC learner, I'm very heavily 'biassed' towards getting it right as
often as I possibly can...

Thank you.

Roger

[Jack Campin]

What I was saying is that the standard was pretty much dictated by Moine and Gonzato with no regard to software besides abcm2ps.  The process that created the standard was flawed, and many of the abcm2ps features it enshrines have never been implemented by anyone else (and in some cases can't be).

if you are sent a tune in ABC, you still have to copy-and-paste it into an ABC editor of some sort in order to view/play the notes

Here is a piece of ABC I posted to a forum.

http://www.littlegeese.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=961

I didn't make the ABC source visible as I could have done, but it's there - the forum interprets it on the fly.

If a forum embeds the appropriate plugin (as a few others do), it couldn't be easier.  That's why I asked if the same could be done here.  (No such plugin exists for MuseScore).

[Steve_freereeder]

if you are sent a tune in ABC, you still have to copy-and-paste it into an ABC editor of some sort in order to view/play the notes

Here is a piece of ABC I posted to a forum.

http://www.littlegeese.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=961

I didn't make the ABC source visible as I could have done, but it's there - the forum interprets it on the fly.

If a forum embeds the appropriate plugin (as a few others do), it couldn't be easier.  That's why I asked if the same could be done here.  (No such plugin exists for MuseScore).

I think we are talking of completely different requirements of uses, Jack. If a forum supports an ABC plugin to view files, that's fine, go ahead and use ABC.

I use MuseScore to create what can be quite complex scores or pages for teaching. For the latter I often make use of some quite sophisticated features, such as the ability to split and fragment sections of a stave and allow them to be positioned anywhere the page. You can't do that easily in ABC (as far as I know). Those people who were at my one-row workshop in Whitby will be aware of what I mean. See attached for an example, which was created entirely within MuseScore using its standard features. I'm not bothered whether this or that forum does, or does not, have a plugin for MuseScore.

Like I said earlier - it's horses for courses. ABC is great but sometimes I need something with more oomph. Life is too short and I am too busy to fart about trying to make ABC do something for which it was never designed.

[Anahata]

Like I said earlier - it's horses for courses.

Indeed. You don't need a word processor to write an email message, nor a DTP package to write a letter, nor should you try to produce an 80 page magazine with a WP etc.

[Steve_freereeder]

Like I said earlier - it's horses for courses.

Indeed. You don't need a word processor to write an email message, nor a DTP package to write a letter, nor should you try to produce an 80 page magazine with a WP etc.

Exactly! Good analogies, Anahata, thanks.

[Jack Campin]

Steve's example is pretty neat.  If I'd wanted to do that I'd have embedded fragments of notation into a word processor document; certainly much easier if the score editor can do it all.

I'm still not going that route, though.  I am just not confident that MuseScore will be around for very long.

[Steve_freereeder]

Steve's example is pretty neat.

Thanks, Jack. 

I am just not confident that MuseScore will be around for very long.

Hmmm... that's a very pessimistic view. I hope you're wrong. It's been around for nine years now and is continually being developed and upgraded. Many thousands of people have invested work and creativity in it. It's the recommended music notation software for use in Sheffield schools, and many establishments elsewhere, I'm sure.

I think because it is open-source software there will always be a large group of developers hosting and running the code on their own servers, so even if one individual or group goes under for any reason, there are a huge number of back-up sources. Should the worst happen and the software were to disappear completely, I always keep PDF backups of my own work, so whilst it would be inconvenient, nothing would be lost. And as a last resort, there's always Sibelius (£££££££  )

In the meantime I will continue to use MuseScore happily, because it is excellent and does just what I want. If it totally goes down, so be it, but I think it is very unlikely in the foreseeable future.  I love walking on the moors and fells enjoying the fresh air and beautiful views. That sort of thing enhances my life. I'm not going to stop doing it just on the off-chance I might be hit by a stray meteorite. And anyway, I might be run over by a bus tomorrow.

[dave t]

I would endorse the horses for courses approach too. I'm a big fan of Sibelius and use it all the time for the same reasons that Steve uses MuseScore but these are the things that I love about abc notation when it comes to notating single line folk melodies:

-A tune book can reside in a single small text file
-It can be read by anyone who has a computer, phone or tablet using a free app
-The code can be easily created and edited by someone who is most definitley not a computer programmer!
-The abc file does not need to be converted in order to be opened up as notation and edited, something that I could not find a way to do with MusicXML (which requires an import/export process if you use MuseScore or Sibelius)

Dave

[Roger Hare]

What I was saying is that the standard was pretty much dictated by Moine and Gonzato, etc...

OK, thanks - a helpful clarification...

Here is a piece of ABC I posted to a forum.

http://www.littlegeese.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=961

...followed by a useful unintended consequence. I was looking for an ocarina site!
Thanks!

Roger

[Jack Campin]

I was looking for an ocarina site!

Look at my ocarina page: http://www.campin.me.uk/Music/Ocarina/

[Roger Hare]

[off-topic]

Look at my ocarina page: http://www.campin.me.uk/Music/Ocarina/

Thank you for that. This did not appear when I did a simple Google search for 'ocarina'. Neither
did the forum you mentioned earlier in this thread. Thanks again.

R
[/off-topic]

[Jack Campin]

It used to be much more visible but has got buried under an avalanche of crap.

"Italian ocarina" works better, both on Google and Bing.