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Author Topic: The rise of D/G (and the fall of "English Chromatic" C/C#) since 1949  (Read 46669 times)

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Hasse

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Re: The rise of D/G, since 1949
« Reply #80 on: October 16, 2016, 09:46:39 PM »

Yes, sorry I know of that thread. Didn't mean to thread drift... much anyway... ::)

I was just wondering if older home fixed G/D boxes might have been a more normal sight before the luxury of factory made D/G boxes were available. The G/D as a sort of pre-D/G? And might just been played up and down the rows?

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rees

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Re: The rise of D/G, since 1949
« Reply #81 on: October 17, 2016, 09:24:16 AM »

Hasse, there is a famous GD box being talked about on another thread.
I think Rees will give you the details in a while. It was played by Dave Roberts who was the original Blowzabella melodeon player.

Take a look here....
http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,19341.0.html

Cheers
Q

Dave Roberts certainly played across the rows on his G/D.
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Rees Wesson (accordion builder and mechanic)
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Chris Ryall

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Re: The rise of D/G, since 1949
« Reply #82 on: October 17, 2016, 11:26:38 AM »

I went back to early 70's Folk Camps with Dave and was delighted with what he did after joining Blowzabella.

Last saw him at mid Wales festival in '95 and had the pleasure of telling that "he'd done more than anyone I knew to move on melodeon technique in Britain". He seemed surprized! Great bloke, though he was the original 'Bazerker' at times.  Yes .. "G/D"  :o
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Pearse Rossa

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Re: The rise of D/G, since 1949
« Reply #83 on: October 17, 2016, 04:21:19 PM »

I was just wondering if older home fixed G/D boxes might have been a more normal sight before the luxury of factory made D/G boxes were available. The G/D as a sort of pre-D/G? And might just been played up and down the rows?

That would not be the case it seems, based on this piece of evidence;

I've been told that D/G (in English music) originated with a couple of dance players on Dartmoor in the 1940s, who got their Club Model C/F accordions (which were themselves a new introduction in the 1930s) converted to play in D/G, to suit the keys of the fiddle players...

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pgroff

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Re: The rise of D/G, since 1949
« Reply #84 on: October 18, 2016, 06:29:13 PM »

Not to dispute anything written above (which explicitly focuses on English music), but I have seen the occasional low-octave D/G Italian box turn up in the US, seemingly made ca. 1940s- 1950s.  The one I have at present is a ca 1950 (? plus or minus a decade?) Ficosecco in high-pitch D/G (around A 450, not really high enough to be considered a low-pitch Eb/Ab), voiced LMM but with each of those sets of reeds an octave below a typical English D/G in LMM. Maybe this should be indicated "L, LL"

Thus the inside G row of this D/G Ficosecco is very low-pitched; it has reeds in the octave you would usually find in an Italian LMM box in the keys of G/C. But its outside D row has reeds that are a fourth interval lower still.

I think Malcolm Clapp wrote me that he also had a "low LMM D/G" box in similar keys, voicings, and octaves.

The Hohners from the 1930s in DGC (also with a very low octave D row) that turn up in the US have been discussed in other threads on this forum over the years.


PG
« Last Edit: October 18, 2016, 06:32:32 PM by pgroff »
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rees

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Re: The rise of D/G, since 1949
« Reply #85 on: October 18, 2016, 09:04:02 PM »

I have a Castagnari Roma MMM, about 10 years old, in low D/G as you describe. I bought it second-hand from an Italian musician. It is well used.
They play in the upper octaves so it makes sense.
This explains the confusion when I first began importing boxes to the UK from Italy in 1984. Whaaaaat!!!
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Rees Wesson (accordion builder and mechanic)
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Grape Ape

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Re: The rise of D/G, since 1949
« Reply #86 on: October 18, 2016, 09:32:01 PM »

I would like to find a box in DGC, that sounds fun! 

Man, even for someone who has never played a DG box, this discussion is fascinating.

I also wonder, after seeing videos of Luke Deaton playing French tunes on his BC if GC really is the best key for French tunes....

« Last Edit: October 18, 2016, 09:34:32 PM by Grape Ape »
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Malcolm Clapp

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Re: The rise of D/G, since 1949
« Reply #87 on: October 18, 2016, 10:58:31 PM »


I think Malcolm Clapp wrote me that he also had a "low LMM D/G" box in similar keys, voicings, and octaves.

PG

Yes, indeed I do, but a more modern (1991) Dino Baffetti Carnival ART 87. I can't really say that I have bonded too well with it though, as it is only 19 buttons, so playing up at the dusty end often leaves me short of the ideal range, and at the low end, using the standard D/G style fingering, it lacks the tonal quality to be heard at sessions or while busking, though for home use in a nice resonant room it certainly makes the windows rattle.

Judging by its condition, I would say that it has been played quite a lot by its previous owner(s). I purchased it from Italy, so presumably somewhere in that country there is/was possibly a D/G tradition....
« Last Edit: October 18, 2016, 11:09:31 PM by Malcolm Clapp »
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Re: The rise of D/G, since 1949
« Reply #88 on: October 20, 2016, 02:31:57 PM »

I agree with you there Rees, but when I venture south of the Tees it's rare to find a DG player who doesn't put their box down when the key of  A crops up in a session.  I was recently at an event in York where this happened.  A English concertina player played a set that went into a well known A tune, Athol Highlanders I think, and the DG section went very quiet.

Aaargh -- A is by far the best key for Atholl Highlanders on a D/G box!!!
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Theo

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Re: The rise of D/G, since 1949
« Reply #89 on: October 20, 2016, 07:48:47 PM »

Exactly, of course it is.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Henry Piper

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Re: The rise of D/G, since 1949
« Reply #90 on: October 28, 2016, 08:40:05 PM »

Is it at all possible that some of the earliest German-built D/G Ericas or Pokerworks still around today originated from Peter Kennedy's initial ordering? We wouldn't necessarily today know their provenance.

 I had an Erica in D/G which I bought in the Early 70, if I remember correctly, Second hand from a middle aged lady in Catford S.E London, who formerly used it for Country dance playing, it came with a Bell accordians Plastic badge on the rear, It was fitted with a new set of reeds about 15 years ago, and I recently refurbished it including stripping the plastic covering off complete with a coat of black paint !! (added when the Black Ericas became trendy) as it was getting really tatty and sold it on to another member on this forum, who as far as I know is very happy with it.
I have often wondered if this might have been one of the EFDSS issue ones, The lady from whom I bought it certainly gave the impression of being an EFDSS, and PLayford type !!.
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Ebor_fiddler

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Re: The rise of D/G, since 1949
« Reply #91 on: October 29, 2016, 11:20:03 PM »

I know that English concertina player and I think I know the session. Yes, he does play "Athol Highlanders" in A as God intended. The only D/G player who follows him on this is usually me (thank you George!). Most D/G players round our way tend to play it in G, because they need the basses for ceilidh playing.

Chris B.
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Theo

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Re: The rise of D/G, since 1949
« Reply #92 on: October 30, 2016, 07:05:36 AM »

I play it in A for ceilidhs.  The guitar player takes care of the chords.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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george garside

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Re: The rise of D/G, since 1949
« Reply #93 on: October 30, 2016, 08:11:18 AM »

i just tap the bass very lightly  - ?slightly tuned percussion- nobody has ever made an adverse comment but maybe too pissed to notice!
george ;)
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ACE

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Re: The rise of D/G, since 1949
« Reply #94 on: October 30, 2016, 02:49:57 PM »

I would like to find a box in DGC, that sounds fun! 




Mine is nearly there G/D/Bb. The Bb is a 9 button helper row with 14 basses on the other end. Fun? yes, confusing at first and still finding the possibilities. Speciality tuned for somebody in a former life, but not having a helper row I had to learn how to use one anyway so the layout although strange to somebody else is starting to fit me now.
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Re: The rise of D/G, since 1949
« Reply #95 on: October 30, 2016, 03:04:26 PM »

I play it in A for ceilidhs.  The guitar player takes care of the chords.

That's what they're there for.... :|glug :|glug
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george garside

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Re: The rise of D/G, since 1949
« Reply #96 on: October 30, 2016, 04:38:39 PM »

I would like to find a box in DGC, that sounds fun! 




Mine is nearly there G/D/Bb. The Bb is a 9 button helper row with 14 basses on the other end. Fun? yes, confusing at first and still finding the possibilities. Speciality tuned for somebody in a former life, but not having a helper row I had to learn how to use one anyway so the layout although strange to somebody else is starting to fit me now.

that sounds fairly horrendous to get the hang of!  The BCC# layout is completely logical in comparison to  DG + any sort of helper row and has the advantage of accidentals in both directions.  The keys of G and D are also very easy to get the hang of   (and automatically give you the wherewithal for Ab and Eb entirely free of charge!   For what its worth I love my simple 2 row DG boxes for playing in D & G  but once  you start adding varied 'complications' to a simple 2 row DG  it becomes more complicated to learn than a BCC# box

george
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Jack Campin

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Re: The rise of D/G, since 1949
« Reply #97 on: October 30, 2016, 05:25:53 PM »

Quote
Mine is nearly there G/D/Bb. The Bb is a 9 button helper row with 14 basses on the other end.

That should be a pretty good setup for klezmer.  Can you do all of D & G major and D & G minor on the push?
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Re: The rise of D/G, since 1949
« Reply #98 on: October 31, 2016, 05:48:56 PM »

I play it in A for ceilidhs.  The guitar player takes care of the chords.
Why don't you play the chords on the box, they're all there?
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Theo

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Re: The rise of D/G, since 1949
« Reply #99 on: October 31, 2016, 05:51:25 PM »

That's why we have a guitar player.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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