Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[olly]

Some of my favourite sessions involve nearly as much chat with friends and like minded people as time spent playing. Can't imagine anyone paying me for that but wouldn't miss it for the world.

[squeezy]

Oh dear ... I've been to a few of those sessions ...

[Theo]

For me the best sessions are the regular ones where we are all friends and the atmosphere is relaxed and sociable and tunes and conversation are both an enjoyable part of the evening. It feels like a group of friends who get together at the pub oncee a week, and we just happen to be musicians. Perfect.  Visitors/guests/newcomers are made welcome too.

[baz parkes]

For me the best sessions are the regular ones where we are all friends and the atmosphere is relaxed and sociable and tunes and conversation are both an enjoyable part of the evening. It feels like a group of friends who get together at the pub oncee a week, and we just happen to be musicians. Perfect.  Visitors/guests/newcomers are made welcome too.

Ah those...the ones to which I take my box and then don't touch it because I'm too busy enjoying the other bits...

[IanD]

The problem with the Irish session scene (to some extent in Ireland and universally elsewhere) is that none of the people taking part in it have ever played the tunes for dancing.  And nobody ever comes into the pub and dances to them.  So they never come out sounding like dance tunes.  It's a degenerate musical culture, it's lost what should have been its focus.  (You would never find a long-running Scottish session where there weren't regulars who played for dancing, and I think the same is true for English music).

There was a PhD on the sociology of the British session scene, done about 20 years ago.  It was published as a book.  The researcher characterized a session as a gathering in a pub where people got together to play tunes with 8-bar phrases... spot on.  I can't recall the title of the book or the author's name.

This is a more recent book, specifically on the Irish scene:

http://journalofmusic.com/focus/making-irish-traditional-music

I have a PDF of what seems to be a chapter from that, "Getting to the Heart of the Music: idealizing musical community and Irish traditional music sessions", originally published in the Journal of the Society for Musicology in Ireland, 2 (2006-7), pp.1-18.  I got it from a public source but can't find it out there now; if anybody wants a copy give me an email address.

[edit: I think the book I saw is the same one Sage Herb was referring to, Niall MacKinnon's "The British Folk Scene: Musical Performance and Social Identity", Open University Press 1993].

Spot on Jack, it's why many people in England hate "Irish sessions" stuffed with diddly-diddly play it faster merchants who learned from a fat book of Irish tunes but never learned *how* to play them. If you listen to proper Irish traditional musicians -- old or young -- they (mostly) don't play like this, they haven't forgotten what the music was originally for. We got asked to dance at an anniversary evening at the Hammersmith Irish Centre a few years ago, and there were performances from (mostly young) Irish musicians which were without exception fantastic -- played relatively slowly with feeling and expression and a real "bounce" to them which made it impossible not to tap your feet, and indeed want to get up and dance. I'd happily sit and watch/listen to music like that all night, and that's exactly what we did when not dancing -- apart from drinking copious quantities of Guinness, obviously...

And this is what you very rarely get in "Irish sessions" in England (and increasingly not in Ireland) -- even if someone starts a tune this way (rare in itself), the speed merchants come in and drive it along at speed and beat all the life out of it, with no space or time for any feeling or expression or bounce apart from getting as many notes per second in as possible.

There, got that off my chest...

[richard.fleming]

Off chest and off topic. Ian. The topic was not 'how I hate it when Irish musicians play too fast'. I think when I started it there was not even any reference to Irish sessions, just sessions in general, as I am conscious that many melnetters are not very in tune with Irish music.

[IanD]

Off chest and off topic. Ian. The topic was not 'how I hate it when Irish musicians play too fast'. I think when I started it there was not even any reference to Irish sessions, just sessions in general, as I am conscious that many melnetters are not very in tune with Irish music.

Apart from the too-fast-Oirish coomment, I'd say that people taking over tunes and pushing them away from how the musician who started the tune obviously intended them to be played is exactly on topic.

And speed is the biggest culprit here, and it's almost invariably speeding up -- for example, I've started off tunes like the Coconuts as a slow skanky back-beat hopstep and had people join in and push the speed up and play the downbeat to the point where I've had to shout "listen!!".

[Theo]

I've also been to plenty of "English" sessions where the tempo is too fast and the pulse is missing, and I'm sorry to say it's often players of loud melodeons who are often pushing the pace and loosing the bounce. I encountered several at Whitby this year. Fortunately Whitby has plenty more to offer. So let's not get nationalistic about it. I share the positive views expressed above about Irish music played well. Lovely stuff.

[Hasse]

Thanks Theo and Richard! 

In Sweden some argue that since the 1970s people have been playing and dancing slower making the music boring! If you cannot believe this antipode to some of the posts above and read Swedish, look up the magazine ”Spelmannen 1-2015” and look for the article by Leif Alpsjö. Not everyone agrees with this statement of course, but interesting reading nevertheless.

And even though some people seem to drag in ITM sessions as bad examples. I’m pretty sure they will differ just as much as any other tradition from session to session and from time to time, maybe even depending on your own present mood that day.

Speed and rhythm always have been and will be a great centre of discussions and disagreements in all music traditions. Just look up your own favourite music traditions and I'm SURE you will find evidence for this. 

[Hasse]

Other session aspects:

In session, even your old faithful, I think it's always a good idea to have a low profile/melodeon sound. Misunderstand me correctly-

When starting a tune I always keep a rather low volume, (often contagious),and some times if I got everyones intention try and speak out my intention of speed/tempo to point out a direction.

When falling in to someones else's tune I also always choose low volume, and depending of number of people joining in maybe just supportive notes. I think melodeons are often regarded as noisy and dominating as hell with lots of not so well fitting chord/basses, and not always without reason...

But mainly to do to the others what you would like them to do to you, even though they never do. I guess I like going to sessions feeling like that, and not being to concerned about unwritten rules, simply listening, playing and having a beer or cup of coffee (coffee = I live in Sweden...!! )

EDIT: spelling -lazy me!!

[george garside]

Off chest and off topic. Ian. The topic was not 'how I hate it when Irish musicians play too fast'. I think when I started it there was not even any reference to Irish sessions, just sessions in general, as I am conscious that many melnetters are not very in tune with Irish music.

continuing 'off topic'' for a highly danceable old school irish ceilidh band   have a look at the various youtubes of the gallowglass ceilidh band. I particularly enjoy playing along with their rendition of the bluebell polka being played with dancers dancing!

george

[IanD]

I've also been to plenty of "English" sessions where the tempo is too fast and the pulse is missing, and I'm sorry to say it's often players of loud melodeons who are often pushing the pace and loosing the bounce. I encountered several at Whitby this year. Fortunately Whitby has plenty more to offer. So let's not get nationalistic about it. I share the positive views expressed above about Irish music played well. Lovely stuff.

Exactly what I meant when I mentioned Coconuts above -- I'd say the "too fast no pulse" problem occurs with all instruments and in English sessions too, but loud melodeons are much more difficult to ignore or drown out ;-)

[Jack Campin]

Most of this discussion has been about sessions where people are simply playing for each other - there is another kind, where entertaining an audience of non-players is an essential part of what you're doing. (I prefer that). It doesn't help to try codifying the implications as "rules", but it does mean you need to think about how to get people's attention, vary the mood and energy level, and react to the response you get. A whole evening of jigs and reels at 120bpm with an unvarying lineup will usually be treated as walllpaper.

[george garside]

in other words play what they like/want rather than what you  like/want.  A bad example is that of a 'morris' band of whatever flavour continuing to play their morris tunes while the dancers ae having a breather  so the audience buggers off rather than  some well know rhythmic tunes that the audience will identify with and stay to listen to and perhaps even feel disposed to putting more in the tin.

george

[Hasse]

Hmm Jack, interesting! I always imagine most sessions in public places like pubs to be aimed at also entertaining other guests. I know people visit a specific location to listening to certain sessions, often while talking, eating and drinking, (I do!!)

But sure if the people playing can't agree about anything and the music becomes utter chaos, it might just put off any audience and make them leave = bad for the business = not a long lasting session...

[IanD]

Most of this discussion has been about sessions where people are simply playing for each other - there is another kind, where entertaining an audience of non-players is an essential part of what you're doing. (I prefer that). It doesn't help to try codifying the implications as "rules", but it does mean you need to think about how to get people's attention, vary the mood and energy level, and react to the response you get. A whole evening of jigs and reels at 120bpm with an unvarying lineup will usually be treated as walllpaper.

Why would anyone want to play a whole evening of the same stuff? Just as boring for the musicians as listeners, if not more so...

My suggested session "rules" -- if anyone needs to have them written down -- would include:

1. Think what will add variety and isn't too similar to what was just played -- maybe a third consecutive set of downbeat English polkas is too many?
2. Don't monopolise the session, give other people a chance to lead tunes -- and listen to and follow them!
3. Consider playing backup sometimes, or harmony, or not at all (radical!)
4. Especially with a loud instrument, if your timing (e.g. percussion) or tuning (e.g. some saxes) is dodgy, try and keep the volume down
5. It's not a concert -- the occasional beautiful tune that nobody else can play is OK, but everyone didn't come to listen to *you*
6. If a tune's not worth playing at least 4 times through, it's not worth playing at all

Though it has to be said that the problem with no.4 is the people who most need to do this are often the least likely to realise it... :-(

[rees]

Good points, Ian, especially Point 1.

I get really pissed off when I try to vary the mood by playing a waltz, only to be followed by someone else playing a waltz, only to be followed by someone else playing a waltz, only to be followed by someone else playing a waltz. Vary the mood my arse!

[playandteach]

Only think - I aspire to reach this level of mediocrity.

[Hasse]

It would have been interesting to know what some of you people actually are doing to make your sessions work better, besides complaining about everyone else’s bad behaviors…

Last night I was very tired, and only this morning I realized I missed out on a Thursday session – sat in front of the computer reading/writing about session instead – HORROR and DISMAY!!!!!

[Lyra]

I think they do quite a lot. Complaining mainly happens in here among friends - kind of a therapeutic safe place.