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Author Topic: How to make a piano accodion less bad ...  (Read 899 times)

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squeezy

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How to make a piano accodion less bad ...
« on: October 17, 2016, 10:32:29 PM »

This wouldn't work with a melodeon ... but I still want one ... it's genius!  This is a video everyone should watch!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGJCJKoBVvY
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Squeezy

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Grape Ape

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Re: How to make a piano accodion less bad ...
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2016, 11:07:50 PM »

I see why they keep him in the basement- Just Kidding! That was awesome!

I wonder how the bass saxophone part of it works...
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playandteach

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Re: How to make a piano accodion less bad ...
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2016, 11:45:57 PM »

Bass clarinet - but I can't work it out either. Must be the piano keyboard lengthening the pipe of the bass clarinet with levers - must be an uncomfortable force on the keys if it is, unless it's very very clever positioning of pivot points. The bass clarinet sound is because the pipe is effectively cylindrical rather than conical. Nuts.
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Pearse Rossa

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Re: How to make a piano accodion less bad ...
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2016, 11:46:28 PM »

I wonder how the bass saxophone part of it works...
It's not exactly a saxophone.
Read all about it here.
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squeezy

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Re: How to make a piano accodion less bad ...
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2016, 11:53:52 PM »

Yeah - it's more complicated than just sticking one instrument on another ... he made it from plastic pipe and the keys trigger the valves by some form of fishing line!
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Squeezy

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pgroff

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Re: How to make a piano accodion less bad ...
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2016, 02:50:20 AM »

this is just one facet of Mark's amazing work

Well worth checking out his music, homemade instruments, puppets, etc

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baz parkes

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Re: How to make a piano accodion less bad ...
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2016, 08:52:24 AM »

I was about to make some smart arse remark along the lines of "Give it Jason Rice, Harriet Bartlett or Karen Tweed.." (other players are available)...but my gob is truly smacked...amazing...
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Chris Ryall

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Re: How to make a piano accodion less bad ...
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2016, 09:46:13 AM »

superb. Thanks
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RogerT

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Re: How to make a piano accodion less bad ...
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2016, 07:41:48 AM »

This has just made my day. Wonderful.

Nick Collis Bird

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Re: How to make a piano accodion less bad ...
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2016, 07:49:27 AM »

Ain't the human race just wonderful
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Psuggmog Volbenz

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Re: How to make a piano accodion less bad ...
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2016, 09:49:03 PM »

Bass clarinet - but I can't work it out either. Must be the piano keyboard lengthening the pipe of the bass clarinet with levers - must be an uncomfortable force on the keys if it is, unless it's very very clever positioning of pivot points. The bass clarinet sound is because the pipe is effectively cylindrical rather than conical. Nuts.
The bass clarinet sound most likey due to length of air column and single reed starting the oscillation of the air column. The bore profile would more likely affect the intonation between octaves.  The key pressure would be assisted by springs and lever geometry. it quite possible to design the action to be light and responsive. It would be easy to make the clarinet either a conical or cylinderical bore, even if using repurposed pvc or abs plumbing pipe.
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playandteach

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Re: How to make a piano accodion less bad ...
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2016, 10:20:00 PM »

The cylindrical bore affects the overblow, making it a 12th rather than an octave. In regards to intonation (as opposed to register overblow) there is almost always a small widening of the true interval of 12ths. It's a subtle but inherent issue and I spent years coping with it - as it was my job to play in tune with the first clarinet player. Octave intonation is down to placement and size of holes rather than bore. I do believe that the tonal quality of the clarinet is largely due also to the cylindrical bore (otherwise it sounds like a sax - which of course is also a single reed, but conical bore). The length of the pipe does, of course, make it sound like a bass clarinet rather than a clarinet. I don't mean to sound didactic on this, but when I soothe the wording it becomes less precise - apologies. It's still very clever, still very nuts.
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Psuggmog Volbenz

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Re: How to make a piano accodion less bad ...
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2016, 06:15:52 AM »

The cylindrical bore affects the overblow, making it a 12th rather than an octave. In regards to intonation (as opposed to register overblow) there is almost always a small widening of the true interval of 12ths. It's a subtle but inherent issue and I spent years coping with it - as it was my job to play in tune with the first clarinet player. Octave intonation is down to placement and size of holes rather than bore. I do believe that the tonal quality of the clarinet is largely due also to the cylindrical bore (otherwise it sounds like a sax - which of course is also a single reed, but conical bore). The length of the pipe does, of course, make it sound like a bass clarinet rather than a clarinet. I don't mean to sound didactic on this, but when I soothe the wording it becomes less precise - apologies. It's still very clever, still very nuts.

I come to this from the perspective of a french horn player and one who has fabricated cylindrical and tapered bored tubing for horns which I have modified. Also have played an Albert system six key flute for several decades, have repaired and dabbled at playing Boehm system flutes and clarinets, also have a Shawm which is a precursor the the reinasiance era double reed oboe. The Albert system flute has a cylindrical head bore and a tapered bore body. The Boehm system flute has a parabolic cross section head and a cylindrical bore body. Both the Boehm system clarinets I own, one in Bb and the other in A, both have a taper to the bore. The Bb clarinet which was nearby as I typed this has a bore diameter at the bell join of 21.04mm and a bore diameter of 15.01mm at barrel join. This seems tapered to me. I have made several woodwind instruments and empirically studied intonation and finger  hole placement and undercutting issues. I know there are ongoing intonation/design issues with clarinets. As with many things compromises must be made. Thanks for sharing your experiences.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 06:21:35 AM by Psuggmog Volbenz »
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playandteach

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Re: How to make a piano accodion less bad ...
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2016, 06:39:48 AM »

The clarinet is a cylinder with a flare at the end. Some modern clarinets have all sorts of clever bore adjustments. The best barrel I have has a reverse taper on it to counteract the wide 12th issues. It's still acoustically a cylinder. And the fact that is a stopped cylinder rather than an open one is the cause of its peculiarities. For any more info you're going to need someone who knows more about acoustics. I was just a player who had to bully the thing into working. I know some piccolos have a reverse taper... didn't mean to open a can of worms.
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IanD

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Re: How to make a piano accodion less bad ...
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2016, 06:26:44 PM »

The cylindrical bore affects the overblow, making it a 12th rather than an octave. In regards to intonation (as opposed to register overblow) there is almost always a small widening of the true interval of 12ths. It's a subtle but inherent issue and I spent years coping with it - as it was my job to play in tune with the first clarinet player. Octave intonation is down to placement and size of holes rather than bore. I do believe that the tonal quality of the clarinet is largely due also to the cylindrical bore (otherwise it sounds like a sax - which of course is also a single reed, but conical bore). The length of the pipe does, of course, make it sound like a bass clarinet rather than a clarinet. I don't mean to sound didactic on this, but when I soothe the wording it becomes less precise - apologies. It's still very clever, still very nuts.

Cylindrical bore instruments like clarinets overblow a 12th because they're half a wavelength long; this also means they play an octave lower then a conical bore instrument (e.g. a sax) of the same length, and the sound has also no even harmonics (especially second) which gives that distinctive hollow tone.
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playandteach

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Re: How to make a piano accodion less bad ...
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2016, 06:50:17 PM »

Thanks for that.
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