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Author Topic: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?  (Read 18951 times)

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Susanne

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Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« on: July 03, 2009, 12:56:25 PM »

I don't know if this has been discussed before. As I understand, this is a British site. When I lived in Ireland, people said simply "accordion" about any box, and to specify things they said 3-row or 2-row or whatever-row box. I think about the big chromatic box they said chromatic accordion. They said only the 1-row box were called melodeons. (and also an Englishman I met at the concertina gathering in Sweden said so, not because he was influenced by Irishmen, but because they simply are melodeons) Here on this site, it seems all diatonic boxes are called melodeons, am I right (I'm Swedish, English is not my native language, and I sometimes get confused)???

How do people in England specify different types of boxes if all of them are called melodeons?
Do you also call the small 1,5 row/2 bass boxes they use in southern Italy melodeons or do you call them organetto, using the Italian word for diatonic accordion (which is also being discussed in Italy whether to call them organetto or fisarmonica diatonica, apart from the 2 bass one) ?

I experienced a big confusion in Ireland when speaking about squeezeboxes!

Please let me know what vocabulary to use on this site so that I'll know we are speaking about the same thing.

Have a great day,
Susi
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Rob2Hook

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2009, 01:18:16 PM »

Susi,

Yes, there is a confusion of terminology about boxes in each country!  In England, most people refer to all diatonic boxes as melodeons, although some people trying to be less confusing (?) and more exact call them bisonoric rather than diatonic.  The single row boxes that sired the cajun box is generally referred to as a three-stop, four-stop, etc depending on the number of voices.  As it's not common in the culture here, the little 1 1/2 row is usually called an organetto, just as club models are called clubs.  Otherwise it is a question of defining the box as, e.g. two row eight bass D/G - the most common beast in the UK.  These and others can be grouped as "quint" boxes, i.e. tuning a fifth apart between rows.  Scottish/Irish boxes , B/C, C#/D, etc are generally called semitone boxes.  Continental Chromatics are called just that, or abreviated to CBA (Continental Button Accordians).

Well, that may not clear up the confusion, but gives a number of terms to define which type you are talking about.  Now I fully expect various people to tell me I'm wrong, but that just proves the point about the confusion of terminology!

Tell me, though - what type of box makes all those wonderful sounds in Groupa?

Rob.
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Susanne

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2009, 02:22:54 PM »

I haven't listened to Groupa, but they probably use a G/C or A/D box, the most common tunings in Swedish music.

Thanks for giving me some more insight - and even more confusion!! ;D
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jb

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2009, 06:28:12 PM »

I haven't listened to Groupa, but they probably use a G/C or A/D box, the most common tunings in Swedish music.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2009, 07:15:01 PM by jb »
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Susanne

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2009, 03:02:29 AM »

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Pete Dunk

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2009, 10:51:19 AM »

Yes, there is a confusion of terminology about boxes ...  it is a question of defining the box as, e.g. two row eight bass D/G - the most common beast in the UK.  These and others can be grouped as "quint" boxes, i.e. tuning a fifth apart between rows.

This point certainly causes confusion for me, probably because my musical theory is a bit shaky. Let's take the D/G box as an example. The D row is lower in pitch than the G and it is normal to speak of musical intervals in ascending order of pitch above the root note and as it happens the (third or fourth button) doh on the G row is the fourth of the D scale on the outer row. To add to the confusion D is of course the fifth of the G scale. If these boxes are referred to as 'quint' or 'fifth apart' does this mean that by convention the inner row is classed as the home row, and if this is the case shouldn't it be called a G/D?

Now I fully expect various people to tell me I'm wrong, but that just proves the point about the confusion of terminology!
I'm not saying you're wrong but it does as you say highlight the confusion caused by an undefined terminology.  ???

Pete.
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HallelujahAl

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2009, 11:21:58 AM »

It does seem strange that in just about every other country in the world, apart from England, the instrument that I play is called an accordion. Why is it that england is different? I'm genuinely interested in the etymology of this but don't even know where to begin looking ???
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TonyRussellDavis

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2009, 01:30:41 PM »

I'm looking at the front of a 1796 Clinkscale catalogue with a photo of (the great) Jimmy Shand playing the 3-row Paulo Soprani "British Chromatic Accordion". Inside there is a page dedicated to "Diatonic British Chromatic Type Instruments" (2-row in B/C or C/C#, 3-row in BCC#).
All clear then? Tony.
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HallelujahAl

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2009, 01:32:52 PM »

Quote
But it isn't, is it? E.g. Sweden ("dragspel") as in a couple of posts back. And in several eastern european countries the normal name is some variant on "harmonika", although in both cases there is similar ambiguity between piano and button varieties. Doesn't usage of "accordion" basically reflect direct or indirect French influence?

NOPE! Check an etymological dictionary - accordion simply describes the function of the instrument basically, in other words to produce a concord of sounds, and is of german origin. Concertina would actually be closer to having a French origin.

quote from Online Etymoligical Dictionary
Quote
accordion 
1831, from Ger. Akkordion, from Akkord "concord of sounds, be in tune" (cf. It. accordare "to attune an instrument;" see accord) + suffix on analogy of clarion, etc. Invented 1829 by Cyrill Damian of Vienna.
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TomB-R

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2009, 01:50:45 PM »

Andy Cutting seems to be generally credited as playing "diatonic button accordion," but most of us here would thing of what he plays (G/C?) as a melodeon.

In England I'd call a one row or a two or three row (fourth apart) a melodeon. 

In Ireland I'd only call a one row a melodeon.

Even in England I generally wouldn't call a two, three, (or 1 1/2 !) "half step" or "semitone" box a melodeon, I'd call it a button accordion with diatonic as an optional prefix! John Kirkpatrick seems to count his B/C/C# as a melodeon.

Language varies and translation is needed!
Tom
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Susanne

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2009, 03:40:05 PM »

in just about every other country in the world, apart from England, the instrument that I play is called an accordion.

But it isn't, is it? E.g. Sweden ("dragspel") as in a couple of posts back. And in several eastern european countries the normal name is some variant on "harmonika", although in both cases there is similar ambiguity between piano and button varieties. Doesn't usage of "accordion" basically reflect direct or indirect French influence?

Actually, in both Swedish, Norwegian and Italian there are two different words for chromatic and diatonic accordions. In Swedish the big, 5-row (or piano) accordion is "dragspel". In Norwegian it's "trekkspill" and in Italian "fisarmonica". All diatonic/bisonoric boxes; 2-row, 1-row, 3-row etc are "durspel". in Swedish. In Norwegian they're "torader" (means 2-row", I don't know what they say about 1-row, 3row and others) and in Italian they are "organetto", even if there are people who prefer saying "fisarmonica diatonica" (and I don't know if there is a clear theoretical definition of organetto as being only the 1,5-row box, the people I know say organetto about all bisonoric boxes). So it's not only England... I do prefer having two different words for the two different boxes because I want to know if people are talking chromatic or diatonic... more confusion in Ireland, in my opinion, where everything is accordion (unless it's a 1-row box...).
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george garside

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2009, 04:36:17 PM »

but then just to be awkward we have the British Chromatic! (BCC#)  which is either chromatic or diatonic depending on the way you look at iit or is it a chromatic diatonic??? or a adiatonic chromatic!!  and what do other nations refer to it as other than a diabolical contraption!

george ;)

 
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Susanne

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2009, 05:23:17 PM »

Woahaha but is it bisonoric or the same tone in and out? Seriously I think we should change our vocabulary here because diatonic only refers to the kind of scale used on the keyboard within the row (must be within the row, must be but I'm not sure, otherwise it would be at least half chromatic... more confusion) and has nothing to do with the instrument being bisonoric or not.... and they do call the Irish B/C box a chromatic box just like the British chromatic.. because you can play more or less all keys. But it is bisonoric, and it seems like one of the most typical differences between an accordion and a melodeon (speaking British vocabulary) is that a melodeon is bisonoric and the accordion is not.

Interesting to see that there is just as much confusion in the squeezebox world as there is in the mandolin family instruments world:)
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george garside

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2009, 05:46:14 PM »

one end is  and the other end isn't but its completely chromatic with all keys readily available.  The melodeon term for push all push pull boxes is , I think, mainly English & perhaps a bit Scottish. The Irish only refer to the one row box as a melodeon  2 or 3 rows maka it an accordion . My way of looking at it is that they are all part of the accordion family    which originated with the the sook & blaw box  which is of course still going from strength to strength.

george ;)
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Susanne

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2009, 06:50:32 PM »

Too big and heavy ;) I prefer organetto-size!

Yeah, they're all in the accordion family. Just wish there would be a more homogene way of nominating them within the English language!! Even worse than with the mandolin family instruments!
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ladydetemps

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2009, 06:52:55 PM »

I call them all squeezeboxes and hope for the best. lol!

sqwzboxstudent

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2009, 07:02:32 PM »

i just call mine "the box"
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george garside

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2009, 07:04:43 PM »

me to!

george
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Randal Scott

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2009, 07:39:03 PM »

I prefer to use DBA -- diatonic button accordian -- for all (except CBAs and PAs).  For me, this is most descriptive.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2009, 07:40:52 PM by catty »
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Ebor_fiddler

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2009, 11:11:37 PM »

I choose to use "Melodeon" just to be D***** B***** A(wkward) !   :o:||:

 :-*

Love and Fishes,

Chris.

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