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Author Topic: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?  (Read 18952 times)

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Susanne

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2009, 12:17:13 AM »

I call them all squeezeboxes and hope for the best. lol!


Agreed. Squeezebox is the best word.
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2009, 10:18:07 AM »

The language is surely very confused in the anglophone countries. Not so much elsewhere - French speak of 'diato' and 'chromatique'. I think a one row is always a melodeon in Britain (not in Lousianna). But to me a 2 or 3 row diatonic's epithet is essentially in its player's head.

If you play your tunes up and down single rows, then you are probably playing a 'melodeon'. You might have 3 of these conveniently packaged in a single box, but that's how you are playing it. eg I met a nice scot in Dunedin who only played his ADG this way - the style has its own distinctive, and very punchy sound. It would be unkind for me to suggest saving weight by pocketing three mouth organs, so I won't ...

Those who seek out note runs across rows to play more lyrically against a left end chord are to me 'accordion' players. Andy Cutting is a fine example (as Tom said above) but I think that style here started with Dave Roberts.  I don't think that it matters whether its rows are a 4th, a 5th or a mere semitone apart.

If you want to explore the sensual beauty of eg the harmonic minor than this is really the only the way to play.  This for klesma stuff, gypsy music, minors that change key. Someone opposite me last night in midge infested Nidderdale (might have been John Spiers, but we weren't introduced) played the Abbots Bromley Horn Dance tune very well - he cross fingered a lot.

So it's in the eye of the beholder - or am I being too controversial aqain?   "The box" - I suppose it is. But there's real art in playing our chosen instrument, and I feel our language should reflect that. D3R
« Last Edit: July 05, 2009, 12:38:35 PM by chrisryall »
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Howard Jones

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2009, 10:56:05 AM »

To confuse things further, in America I believe "melodeon" means (or perhaps also means") a pump organ - similar to a harmonium but playing on the suck rather than the blow:

http://www.pumporganrestorations.com/melodeons_came_before_pump_organs.htm

Presumably "melodeon" was originally a trade name which got applied, and misapplied, to a variety of instruments.  Usage varies from country to country and we should just accept that.  Applying our own interpretations, especially where these are based on playing style rather than construction, may help us to categorise music in our own minds but don't help to communicate with others.

When referring to button-boxes in England, I think that the what differentiates "melodeons" from "accordions" is the bass end - if it has a Stradella-style bass end, then it's an accordion, if not it's a melodeon.

HallelujahAl

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2009, 11:23:16 AM »

Quote
When referring to button-boxes in England, I think that the what differentiates "melodeons" from "accordions" is the bass end - if it has a Stradella-style bass end, then it's an accordion, if not it's a melodeon.

Um..not so sure about this, possibly JK would argue - however, given that we all play a variety of different boxes with all sorts of different names maybe the title 'melodeon.net' could be seen as somewhat restrictive?

****Stir alert*****

What about a name change?

AL >:E
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ladydetemps

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2009, 03:42:08 PM »

Quote
Stradella-style bass end,
excuse my ignorance but what is a Stradella?

Mike Higgins

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #25 on: July 05, 2009, 03:52:45 PM »

Quote
excuse my ignorance but what is a Stradella?

LDT

You have seen millions of these, it is the bass end usually found on a piano accordion. You know the sort of thing, it has the same bass notes and chords on the push and pull. Some have more buttons than a spaceship flight deck. It means you don't have to fiddle about as much to get the chords you want.
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Mike from Ponte Caffaro

Chris Ryall

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #26 on: July 05, 2009, 04:15:24 PM »

Having just purchased an 'accordeon' ;) that has 10 chords and all bass notes in both directions (but melodeon style) - it is massively liberating of what you do with the right hand.

I'm getting more sympathetic to that Stradella right end ... but I'm too old D3R
« Last Edit: July 05, 2009, 05:31:56 PM by chrisryall »
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HallelujahAl

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #27 on: July 05, 2009, 05:22:50 PM »

[quote'm getting more sympathetic to that Stradella right end ... but I'm too old D3R][/quote]
Sorry mate - age has nothing to do with it! A friend of mine (not particularly musical) just took up PA at age 79. The other week he blew me away when we were jamming 'Tico, Tico' - so why not...? Never has an 'old' man had such fun!
AL
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george garside

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #28 on: July 05, 2009, 05:24:25 PM »

Quote from:  our own minds but don't help to communicate with others.

 - if it has a Stradella-style bass end, then it's an accordion, if not it's a melodeon.
[/quote

I once heard Sir Jimmy Shand refer to the Shand Morino as the 'wee melodion'  I wonder what he consideredd to be a large one!

george ;)
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ladydetemps

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #29 on: July 05, 2009, 06:40:16 PM »

Quote
excuse my ignorance but what is a Stradella?

LDT

You have seen millions of these, it is the bass end usually found on a piano accordion. You know the sort of thing, it has the same bass notes and chords on the push and pull. Some have more buttons than a spaceship flight deck. It means you don't have to fiddle about as much to get the chords you want.
ah now I understand...didn't know that was what they were called. I'd be so confused if I had that much choice..I get confused with just 8 buttons.

Bill Young

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #30 on: July 05, 2009, 06:57:27 PM »

ah now I understand...didn't know that was what they were called. I'd be so confused if I had that much choice..I get confused with just 8 buttons.
No, No! You're just so limited with just 8 buttons! The accordion bass was solved decades ago when the Stradella bass was invented.
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ladydetemps

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #31 on: July 05, 2009, 07:01:32 PM »

ah now I understand...didn't know that was what they were called. I'd be so confused if I had that much choice..I get confused with just 8 buttons.
No, No! You're just so limited with just 8 buttons! The accordion bass was solved decades ago when the Stradella bass was invented.
I'd be quite happy with 1 button on the LH...the airbutton that is. ;) :P

HallelujahAl

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #32 on: July 05, 2009, 07:47:25 PM »

Quote
The accordion bass was solved decades ago when the Stradella bass was invented.
Amen! Fewer buttons is more - more complicated, more problems to solve, more things for melodeon players to talk about, more difficult etc. Give me a stradella bass any day, so much easier to learn and in musical terms comprehensive (i.e there's a button for each eventuality).
AL
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Andy Simpson

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #33 on: July 05, 2009, 08:45:13 PM »

The limitations of the melodeon, in the English sense of the word, like the questionable bass and inability to play every note under the sun are just part of the character and appeal of the instrument for me and I question the value of drastic ideas like adding stradella bass to improve them, just get it over and done with and get a piano accordion or a CBA. ;D

To me the melodeon is a bit like a charming thatched cottage in a pretty little village with low ceilings, no insulation, dodgy old wiring, lead plumbing, leaky windows and no mains sewerage...
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rees

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #34 on: July 05, 2009, 08:57:50 PM »

Most of my boxes only have two bass buttons. The punk of the melodeon world. What can possibly go wrong? Just play them loud.
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Mike Higgins

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #35 on: July 05, 2009, 09:26:39 PM »

Quote
just get it over and done with and get a piano accordion or a CBA.

A piano accordion and a CBA don't have the endearing wheezes of suddenly having to dump tanker loads of air in a split second, or the peculiar quiet passages brought on when the bellows are unaccountably too far closed. PAs and CBAs just never have that intangible quality of uncertainty which is always present in the melodeon performance, even with stradella bass. So, LDT, stay on the edge of panic and keep the melodeon, whether it has 2 or 8 or 12  or 48 or 90 or 120 buttons for the left hand to make a mess of.

Mike
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HallelujahAl

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #36 on: July 05, 2009, 09:42:25 PM »

Quote
What can possibly go wrong?

Actually, in my opinion, quite a lot can go wrong - or at least not go 'quite right' - with only two or four effective bass notes you're either going to be limited (very) to the keys that you can play in or there'll have to be some sort of musical compromise made. Nothing wrong with that (I do it all the time - makes my musical endeavours an exciting journey of discovery, as I never play the same thing twice the same way). I love punk btw - I was playing in my first punk band back in 1977/8 and had a fantastic time. We were, however, somewhat limited musically. I was the lead guitarist - and I only knew four chords (1 and a 1/2  if I was stoned) - obviously it didn't matter it was punk and our music was more politics than music. However, I don't really wish to repeat the episode with my box playing.

As for PA & CBA - well, as Mike has pointed out that jumpiness or 'punch' that comes from the air-thirsty machines that we play does help to create a certain sort of frisson for me. For beautiful legato passages, hymnody etc I don't think a PA can be beaten. But nothing beats our boxes for anything that needs to go with a bit of a bump! I think Beethoven would have played melodeon if he'd had the opportunity - his music is all about rhythm. Mozart...CBA?
AL
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Mike Higgins

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #37 on: July 05, 2009, 09:58:56 PM »

Quote
I think Beethoven would have played melodeon if he'd had the opportunity - his music is all about rhythm. Mozart...CBA?

Possibly, but Fur Elise on a melodeon?  ??? ??? ???
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Mike from Ponte Caffaro

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #38 on: July 05, 2009, 10:04:11 PM »

ah now I understand...didn't know that was what they were called. I'd be so confused if I had that much choice..I get confused with just 8 buttons.
No, No! You're just so limited with just 8 buttons! The accordion bass was solved decades ago when the Stradella bass was invented.

If that were true, why the development of the free bass/converter systems that you now find on high-end accordions?
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HallelujahAl

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Re: Melodeon vs accordion - do we speak the same language?
« Reply #39 on: July 05, 2009, 10:25:43 PM »

Quote
If that were true, why the development of the free bass/converter systems that you now find on high-end accordions?
That's cos some people just can't get enough things to do with their fingers - d'you think melodeons are better for lazy people (I'm naturally inclined towards laziness, so maybe that's why I like melodeons more?)
AL
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