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[george garside]

I think the greater popularity of the pisno (sorry that was meant to be piano but  the s & a are next to each othr on the keyboard!) box is mainly for 2 reasons. Firstly they are popular because more people ae aware of their existance & do not know of other types of boxes & secondly  a gret many people have at some time either played or at least dabbled with a piano keyboard of one form or another. Mny of these & particularly thoe who have had some degree of classical piano training assume that they will be able to instntly play a piano box well and this is far from the truth as they totally lack the many facets of instrumental technique that are needed to make a box sound good.

I have taught more people to play piano accordion than  diatonic simply because they have already got a piano box. I have interestingly been asked by several piano boxites to teach them one or other of the sook & blaw systems including the BCC#, which incidentally I often use when teaching piaano box!.  The most surprising one I have had was a very highly qualified & experienced piano teacher who wnated to learn piano accordion as she had bought one but couldn't get it to sund right. On hearing the BCC# she changed her mind & decided to learn tthat system commenting that she had spent 20 year playing exactly what somebody else had written and wanted to be able to play "like you buggers who handcraft every note"

 I have never been asked to teach a pushpull person the piano box which must say something about something!

george

[Randal Scott]

The limitations of the melodeon, in the English sense of the word, like the questionable bass and inability to play every note under the sun are just part of the character and appeal of the instrument for me and I question the value of drastic ideas like adding stradella bass to improve them, just get it over and done with and get a piano accordion or a CBA.

To me the melodeon is a bit like a charming thatched cottage in a pretty little village with low ceilings, no insulation, dodgy old wiring, lead plumbing, leaky windows and no mains sewerage...

I wholely agree.  Just, don't play "jazz" or other serious music on it (melodeon)  .

[melodeon]

I consider the "melodeon" to be one row

I play melodeons

I also play button accordeons, 2 row  2 1/2  and 3 row

I forgive the Brits for confusing the entire issue and calling the whole mess of diatonic , bisonoric ,button activated , bellows driven aerophones .... "melodeons"

Am I correct the French call these little wheezers.. "diato" ? and the Portuguese call button accordeons, specifically 3 rows.. "concertinas"
and then of course in Brazil and Argentina  "gaita" seems to be common

If someone asks what instruments I play   I will usually answer " I am a box player "

I also play Mandolin and its variants.....

[Chris Ryall]

I've mentioned my teenage nephew already. He plays pretty mean piano in a very chordal style. Meanwhile I've finally gone chosen the 3 row route, and find myself overstocked with the various kit I've learned or experimented on (watch that For Sale column..)

Anyway, this has allowed me to loan a simple D/G Castagnari Lilli melodeon (deffo) and a reasonable quality 5 row CBA Stradella bass accordion to the young fella to learn and experiment on. He's now got a local teacher and is in the balmy summer between GCSE and A level pressures. In his head this youngster plays music rather than notes, buttons or dots. It'll be interesting to see which way he goes. D3R

[Chris Brimley]

I tend to agree with those who say we ought to have a name change, and that the generic term 'accordion', (or better still, 'button accordion'), would be less confusing.  When people ask me what I play, I'm never sure what to say.  If I say 'An Accordion', I know that they will immediately get an image of a chest Wurlitzer in their minds.  If on the other hand I say 'A Melodeon', they'll probably think of those plastic Melodica things with a little keyboard, that you blow.  So now I tend to reply 'Well it's a sort of Accordion with lots of buttons.'

The thing is, there are just so many hundreds of different complicated systems, as this forum's information section testifies, that it doesn't really work any more trying to differentiate one from another on the basis of the quint principle. I happen to play three row boxes which are basically two rows with lots of accidentals on the third row, and I do so because I originally learnt on a pokerwork, so it was just an extension of bouncy playing into more note and key variety.   Others do the same with the semitone system or with Stradella basses, and other players have gone down other paths with monosonoric basses and so on.  But the term 'button accordion' would appear to most people to cover all of these instruments, because they all look much the same to the non-muso.

At the moment this term seems to be used mainly for 'non-quints', but wouldn't it be commonsense to widen its usage?

When I joined this forum I was interested in the choice of name 'melodeon.net' because it appeared to be giving credibility to the use of the word 'melodeon' as a generic term, which I had thought was dying out a little.  However many contributors seem happily to discuss the Irish semitone box (and why not?), although I doubt they all think of them as 'melodeons'.

Any thoughts, Theo?

[Theo]

Any thoughts, Theo?

No point changing the domain name now, we would all get lost!

The confusion over names is an endless source of conversation. 

I do always make a point of using the full "piano accordion" name for the boxes with piano type keyboards.

[Chris Ryall]

The confusion over names is an endless source of conversation. 

That's just fine, but what other use has it?

I do always make a point of using the full "piano accordion" name for the boxes with piano type keyboards.

Interesting .. I've used quite a number of different names for these over the years.
But Iwouldn't dream of repeating these on a group that contains contains members of the fair sex. Chris

[Howard Jones]

When referring to button-boxes in England, I think that the what differentiates "melodeons" from "accordions" is the bass end - if it has a Stradella-style bass end, then it's an accordion, if not it's a melodeon.

Um..not so sure about this, possibly JK would argue
AL

Not at all, I've just checked the sleeves of several of JK's albums and he describes his 3-row + Stradella box as a "button accordion/accordeon" or "British accordion", and his one and two row boxes as "melodeons".

This, so far as I can recall, was the common English usage until quite recently, when people started to be more aware (probably via melodeon.net!) that other countries use different names. Also, more players are adopting more sophisticated right-hand layouts or more extensive bass layouts, and perhaps want a different word to distinguish their expensively customised box from a bog-standard two-row 

For me, the limitations of key and chord options are precisely what gives melodeons their character. The challenge is working within these limitations, which often throws up surprising results which wouldn't happen if you could always choose the "correct" chord.  I don't see them as the poor relations of the more chromatic versions.

[HallelujahAl]

don't see them as the poor relations of the more chromatic versions.

No, neither do I. They're different, they're limited, but that characteristic produces something that is often quirky and unique. Thanks for putting me right about JK - I was really under the impression that termed his BCC# with 48 strad bass as a melodeon as well. But glad to be put right on that matter.
AL

[george garside]

The term melodeon seems to be standard English for a DG box & Irish for a 1 row.  CG etc are more often accordions or accordion diatonique so I would be quite happy with button box for the lot whilst accepting that melodeon is a particularly English description of the Dg & Irish description of the 1 row, both of which can also be quite correctly called button boxes because they are!

geore

[Randal Scott]

If someone asks what instruments I play   I will usually answer " I am a box player "

Unfortunately, many string players also refer to their instruments as "boxes"-- particularly guitarists.  But I think "button box" works...especially if further delineated by DBA and CBA.

[george garside]

 
   

I do always make a point of using the full "piano accordion" name for the boxes with piano type keyboards.

I do the same & also give the continental chromatics their full title.

Interesting .. I've used quite a number of different names for these over the years.
But Iwouldn't dream of repeating these on a group that contains contains members of the fair sex. Chris
[/quote]

I can't understand why some have a 'thing' bordering on hatred for piano accordions  even to the degree of using silly terms like p---o a-----n as if to say piano accordion is akin  to saying (or writing) F-----G  H---L or whatever.  They are the mainsatay of the free reed family and there are many top class players of traditional/folk music using them to considerable effect.  There are far greater similarities  than differenses between the various free reed instruments  & there eficacy for different types of music depends to a large degree on the ability of the driver.   We all have personal preferences  , and I,like most members of this forum favour the sook an blaw systems  but am more than happy to play along with piano accordions in a band or in sessions and enjoy listening to many bands led by piano accordionists as well as solo artists. 

In terms of numbers of players free reeders are in a minority amongst  musicians - it would make far more sense to stickk together & appreciate each others choices.

george   

[Ebor_fiddler]

This P**** A******** business (and quite frankly it's a lot easier to spell out the complete words anyway!) is, I think George, a bit like the Lancashire/Yorkshire thing - we go at it hammer and tongs, but it's really just an "In Joke" to puzzle outsiders and nobody really means any real harm by it (otherwise I'd long since have been done by the Race Relations Industry, God bless their little cotton socks!).

PS. One of my best friends was a Piano Accordionist who used to play with the Padstow Mayday Band (does this make me a non-racist?) 

[Owen Woods]

I'm a little late here, but I'd just point out that the Stradella Bass system is still limited, you have no 9ths for example. No sus 4's, no minor 7ths, no maj 7ths, no half diminisheds, etc. etc.

Piano is still the king of instruments imo.

[HallelujahAl]

I'm a little late here, but I'd just point out that the Stradella Bass system is still limited, you have no 9ths for example. No sus 4's, no minor 7ths, no maj 7ths, no half diminisheds, etc. etc

You're right of course - however two things to consider. Firstly by combining certain stradella buttons it is possible to make up the more exotic chords that one might find. Although for most purposes, including that of classical music, standard stradella is more than sufficient. Button combination on the left hand can provide a lot of very interesting harmonies. If for example you were wanting to play Em7-5  you need E G Bb D, Gdim has the E G Bb, + D fundamental bass would do the job nicely. However I kind of prefer Gm+E[Gm6] counterbass and for C9 I would play C7 bass +Gm on the treble side.   

Secondly - if you really want to be able to play 9ths, half dims etc with total abandon the answer is simple. Get a free bass converter accordion!
AL

[Bill Young]

I'm a little late here, but I'd just point out that the Stradella Bass system is still limited, you have no 9ths for example. No sus 4's, no minor 7ths, no maj 7ths, no half diminisheds, etc. etc.

Well . . .  As Al said, it's possible to make up more exotic chords. Here's a comprehensive list.
I only use a couple of the simpler ones - more often I'm struggling to hit the right buttons on the standard layout.

[Chris Ryall]

The http://www.accordionpage.com/chcomb.html "left hand chord combining" page  Bill links is an awsome piece of work, new to me. Limited utility melodeonically - but we all have Cbass+Em, Dbass+C  and B bass+D. I call them crossed chords. They can sound a bit slushy against folk tunes though. So perhaps a nice example of the accordion/melodeon divide? D3R

[HallelujahAl]

http://www.accordionpage.com/chcomb.html[/quote]]

[url]http://www.accordionpage.com/chcomb.html[/url]

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Well...that should keep us busy for a while before we get back round to complaining about the limitations of stradella
AL

[Howard Jones]

  Thanks for putting me right about JK - I was really under the impression that termed his BCC# with 48 strad bass as a melodeon as well. But glad to be put right on that matter.
AL

Well, his 1984 album "Three in a Row" is subtitled "The English Melodeon", but in the sleeve notes he describes it as a three-row button accordion.

[Owen Woods]

Heh, I was being a little tongue in cheek, as obviously judicious combinations of bass buttons will get results. I have to admit though that I have never heard of a free bass converter... *googles*

I need to get myself something with Stradella, it would be fantastic to play with.