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[playandteach]

Just idle curiosity. There seem to be one rows, like pokerworks with only half the buttons, (4 basses) and others with exposed pallets and 2 basses and lots of stops. Are they more or less the same barring those obvious things or entirely different beasts?

[triskel]

Technically speaking the ones "like pokerworks with only half the buttons, (4 basses)" are called, in traditional German terminology "Wiener Harmonikas" or, "Vienna Accordions" in English. They virtually always have only 2 sets of reeds, tuned MM.

The "others with exposed pallets and 2 basses and lots of stops" are called, in traditional German terminology "Deutsche Harmonikas" or, "German Accordions" in English. They can have as few as 2 sets of reeds tuned MM, or 3 tuned LMM or MMH, or 4 tuned LMMH. The open pallets, especially coupled with 4 sets of reeds, produce a great "bark" off the treble end, whilst the 2 basses have a snarling sound of their own because they are mounted on an external "growl box" ("Brummkasten" in German, from Brummen = to growl, roar, boom, grumble, drone, buzz or hum, and kasten = box.)

German Accordions came into favour in the 1870s/'80s, and they started to be called "Melodeons" (usurping the name a small reed organ) in Britain at that time. Vienna Accordions didn't start to become popular until the early 20th century.

[playandteach]

Thanks. Is the one row world divided into lovers of one type or the other?

[triskel]

Thanks. Is the one row world divided into lovers of one type or the other?

YES!

Mostly the German-style ones with stops these days...

[Steve_freereeder]

Thanks. Is the one row world divided into lovers of one type or the other?

You'll find out at Witney! 

[Graham Spencer]

Thanks. Is the one row world divided into lovers of one type or the other?

Not as far as I'm concerned - though I do prefer a 4-stop in most circtumstances.

[Rog]

I have to congratulate Triskel on his detailed knowledge. Fantastic.

[Steve_freereeder]

Thanks. Is the one row world divided into lovers of one type or the other?

You'll find out at Witney! 

Less flippantly - the Hohner 'Vienna' one-row two voice MM instrument with 4 LH bass/chords is a nice instrument and makes a good strong sound due to the flat-mounted reed blocks. But in practice they seem to be fairly limited in their usefulness and I don't know anyone who plays one extensively.

Most one-row players favour the one-row four-stop instrument, voiced LMMH. The extra L and H reeds give an extraordinary powerful and rich sound which, when combined with the necessary pull-pull on-the-row playing technique, results in an instrument capable of tremendous rhythmic drive. The limited basses/chords - tonic and dominant - do not detract from the instrument's versatility. Instead they often add an almost percussive accompaniment, especially on the Hohner H114 boxes, where the growly sound has been aptly described (by Anahata on this forum) as 'grunt and different grunt'. The one-row four-stop is a raw, earthy, instrument; you could not ask for more of a contrast to the smooth expressive French style of playing on a G/C two or three row melodeon.

Ultimately the one-row four-stop instrument is a Marmite box. Personally I love 'em! (as if you haven't already guessed!) 

[911377brian]

Well,P&T,I went through a period of collecting Vienna boxes which I called 1040's at the time,( probably incorrectly.) I had them in just about every sensible key, and all of them tuned by Mike Rowbotham who turned them into something really special.After the odd dalliance with a few non Hohner one rows I fell into the wondrous 114's and found the perfect box.I've just purchased a box from Theo which has six stops ( known hereabouts as the Musical Sideboard) but has nothing like the power of a 114, especially in G....

[Microbot]

Hi Brian, Steve and all

I completely agree with what Steve says of the Hohner 114 boxes ... Fabulous fun to play and they teach you to use a different style from standard 2-row boxes...

But just to throw other things into the mix ... I recently got hold of an early 4-stop Hohner in the key of B, with MMHH reed arrangement. And it is a fabulous sound!!! Bright,ringing and utterly different from the glorious grunt that Steve and Anahata describe so eloquently!

Cheers

Mike R

[911377brian]

Could you put a picture up Mike? Does it look very different from the later ones?

[Winston Smith]

Here's a shot of Brian's "Musical Sideboard", but I thought it should be renamed as a "Muscle Building Musical Sideboard". It'll certainly give him some good exercise over the winter months.

[baz parkes]

Thanks. Is the one row world divided into lovers of one type or the other?

I play both but for different purposes...but my Desert Island box would always be my 4 stopper in C...athough I do have G and D 4 stops...as everyone else has said they do teach you to play in a very different way...but that way is open to a variety of interpretations.  Compare, for example Oscar Woods and Marc Savoy....

[vof]

Just idle curiosity. There seem to be one rows, like pokerworks with only half the buttons, (4 basses) and others with exposed pallets and 2 basses and lots of stops. Are they more or less the same barring those obvious things or entirely different beasts?

Just a shout-out here for P+T not being afraid to ask what may have seemed a question with an obvious answer. I have always considered him as one of the more experienced musicians on the forum and I, even as a novice, believed I understood the differences between the two families and would not have thought to ask the question. His asking it has generated a set of very illuminating responses which has helped me in my thoughts about which type I might consider next when my MADness returns and I feel I must get a one row. Thank you again P+T!

Baz says that if he could only have one 4-stopper, his key of choice would be C. If I ever decided to get one (and only one - my southern-born daughter calls me a tight Geordie!), what are people's views on the key to get? (I play for Morris and ceilidhs.)

Vince

[Steve_freereeder]

...
Baz says that if he could only have one 4-stopper, his key of choice would be C. If I ever decided to get one (and only one - my southern-born daughter calls me a tight Geordie!), what are people's views on the key to get? (I play for Morris and ceilidhs.)

A one-row four-stop (1R4S) in C has a lovely sound, and traditionally was the key most used for East Anglian music. Many of us would like it to be reinstated in popularity, but the reality is that people are playing in C less and less. Shame. 

If you want a 1R4S for morris and ceilidh playing, you will presumably be playing along with other people. Therefore, realistically and basically, you have a choice between one in D or one in G. Pros and cons:

1R4S in D
Pros:
Perhaps better for ceilidh band work? - lots of tunes in D.
The layout and playing position would more or less correspond to the D-row on a conventional 2-row D/G.
Less growly overall
Less air hungry than one in G because the reeds are not as large.
Availability: not uncommon, apart from the Hohner H114

Cons:
Hohner H114 boxes in D are harder to come by.


1R4S in G
Pros:
Perhaps better for morris, as I think more morris tunes are in G.
Relatively easily available as second-hand Hohner H114s
Make a glorious deep earthy sound.

Cons:
Best played in the upper octave, so may 'force' you to relearn some fingering. Actually not a bad thing anyway.
Can be air hungry.
Because of the overall lower pitch, the sound may not 'cut' through a group of other instruments so well.
Less commonly available, apart from second-hand Hohner H114

You may need to decide on your priorities, but if I were in your position, I would try to obtain a box in D as my first 1R4S instrument, and then one in G as my second instrument.

Finally - it's just worth mentioning that the Cajun style of playing is based on a scale starting on the 5th button on a 3rd button start box. So - Cajun players play in the key of G on a 1R4S in C. Similarly, you can play in A on a box pitched in D, and in the key of D on a box pitched in G. But the fingering system needs to be relearned, and also the seventh note of the scale will be flattened to a 'blues' note. 

[Anahata]

A one-row four-stop (1R4S) in C has a lovely sound, and traditionally was the key most used for East Anglian music. Many of us would like it to be reinstated in popularity, but the reality is that people are playing in C less and less. Shame. 

When Mary H. and I play ceilidhs as a duo I always take the C one-row as well as a D/G box. I love the opportunity  to play tunes in a different key and with a different sound.
Here's an example of what just a C one-row and piano sound like (being played for dancing in Stowmarket, right in the middle of East Anglia, and incidentally featuring the late and lovely Bobby Ritchie calling dances, video courtesy of Melnet's LadyDeTemps)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFHYIu7uHv4

BTW one of the Old Glory Molly musicians (who currently plays recorder) is looking for a C one row 4-stop melodeon. If anybody spots one going spare, please let me know.

[boxcall]

I'd say they mechanically play the same.
listeners all seem to like the sweet sound of vienna 1040 in C box, I like having extra basses to go with tunes when playing a fourth away from home key as well as with it. Also the basses seem to pair up well with treble, not as powerful as german growl box. IMO.
one more thing I'd add, when I play my hohner vienna box I find I have to be more accurate in difficult areas of the tune.
good or bad ? I feel like it points out areas that need more work or places where I have gotten lazy.

I love my Beltuna German 4 four stop in D , so easy to play with good sound ( My playing out box). but at home I tend to pick up the vienna, and manage to play tunes on it a tone down.

[syale]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFHYIu7uHv4

and the tune is?

Stephen

[syale]

My babies, love them all! 

Took the D and the G to a recent session but carried my C, just in case. C was my first and I favour it above the others (don't tell them though). A needs to be tuned so looking for a good tuner near to me in Texas.

[playandteach]

Thanks all, so far. I'm sure there'll be more.
I've just tried out Steve's one row pieces for Witney, and what an absolute pig's ear I'm making of them. So against the way I normally play. I've had to write them out in the wrong key (as a G/C player) and I'm going to have to colour code the bellows direction to cope even a bit.
Good practice, if only Witney was a month away.