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Author Topic: How important are keys (B/C, D/G, etc.) when choosing a melodeon?  (Read 7406 times)

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playandteach

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Re: How important are keys (B/C, D/G, etc.) when choosing a melodeon?
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2016, 11:44:43 AM »

All those can be easily handles on a BC  whilst with a semitone i.e 2 key box anything other than the boxes 2 keys would mean you were out!

George ( totally unbiased  as I play both systems regularly)
Do you mean 4ths apart box?
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george garside

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Re: How important are keys (B/C, D/G, etc.) when choosing a melodeon?
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2016, 01:32:41 PM »

All those can be easily handles on a BC  whilst with a semitone i.e 2 key box anything other than the boxes 2 keys would mean you were out!

George ( totally unbiased  as I play both systems regularly)
Do you mean 4ths apart box?

first prize for spotting the deliberate mistake (says he!)   Have edited it - thanks

george
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Stiamh

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Re: How important are keys (B/C, D/G, etc.) when choosing a melodeon?
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2016, 02:56:48 PM »

Despite the conventional wisdom that you can't do much with basses on a standard 8-bass semitone box, actually you can do quite a lot.

A C#/D system with standard basses allows for pretty constant and quite creative bass accompaniment, particularly in the keys of D, Bm, Em, and A to a lesser extent. The key of G is problematic because of the absence of a C chord. Obviously a D/G system scores points there, but on a D/G you don't have a F# bass and chord, which I find amazingly useful both for passing bass notes and for the chord which comes in very handy in Bm, D and even A tunes, in its own right as it were and as a substitution.

On a B/C many players use the basses more sporadically, as rhythmic and harmonic punctuation, to great effect.

Just because many Irish players don't bother much with the basses, or don't play them constantly, doesn't mean they can't be used effectively and there is no shortage of players to prove that point.

I would also correct the impression given by 3d-bit above by pointing out that as with fourth-apart boxes, you can switch between different semitone systems, use the same fingering and have the tunes come out in a different key. Often you can transfer the bass accompaniment too.

Thrupenny Bit

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Re: How important are keys (B/C, D/G, etc.) when choosing a melodeon?
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2016, 03:42:16 PM »

Stiamh:
I have not experienced semi tone boxes so can't comment on whether finger patterns can be switched across them.
I was trying to make the point that the fingering patterns across 4th apart boxes are the same, but *not* if I tried that same '4th apart' fingering pattern applied to a semi tone box.
Or am I wrong in that thinking?
Q
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I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Stiamh

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Re: How important are keys (B/C, D/G, etc.) when choosing a melodeon?
« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2016, 04:25:32 PM »

I was trying to make the point that the fingering patterns across 4th apart boxes are the same, but *not* if I tried that same '4th apart' fingering pattern applied to a semi tone box. Or am I wrong in that thinking?

Of course you are absolutely right. It's just that the wording of your earlier post implied that one can't swap between semitone boxes. I knew what you meant to say, of course, and so most probably did everyone else. Apologies for unnecessary pedantry. (:)

This isn't the case on BC or C#D's, called semitone boxes.

Thrupenny Bit

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Re: How important are keys (B/C, D/G, etc.) when choosing a melodeon?
« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2016, 07:27:29 PM »

Ah I see.....
No need to apologise, better that I explain myself clearly rather than mislead a beginner.
Hopefully we're all clear now  (:)
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

MaryColleen

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Re: How important are keys (B/C, D/G, etc.) when choosing a melodeon?
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2016, 04:36:24 AM »

Yes I misunderstood that and thought that I shouldn't get a semi-tone one.  :(

So I decided to get a fourth apart.  (:)

Then a few minutes ago I threw all that out the window and ordered a one row Cajun in Bb.  :o

Apparently I have no clue what I'm doing!   ???

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Matthew B

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Re: How important are keys (B/C, D/G, etc.) when choosing a melodeon?
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2016, 04:59:56 AM »

Then a few minutes ago I threw all that out the window and ordered a one row Cajun in Bb.

No.  You're sorted.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVUDIjj8_Ow
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Lyra

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Re: How important are keys (B/C, D/G, etc.) when choosing a melodeon?
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2016, 06:50:40 AM »

Apparently I have no clue what I'm doing!   ???
You have ordered your first - there will be others, until you have a small herd. Deep down you know this is just changing the order you acquire them in ;)
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deltasalmon

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Re: How important are keys (B/C, D/G, etc.) when choosing a melodeon?
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2016, 01:25:42 PM »

Apparently I have no clue what I'm doing!   ???
You have ordered your first - there will be others, until you have a small herd. Deep down you know this is just changing the order you acquire them in ;)

Yes. I went from concertina, to B/C, to 1-row C, to C#/D then tried G/C then back to C#/D all in the course of 4 years.

And once the funding is available I'm considering an A/D club...
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MaryColleen

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Re: How important are keys (B/C, D/G, etc.) when choosing a melodeon?
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2016, 01:26:36 PM »

Then a few minutes ago I threw all that out the window and ordered a one row Cajun in Bb.

No.  You're sorted.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVUDIjj8_Ow

Hey! I love that! And after listening, I just found it for free on Amazon Prime and just downloaded it onto my phone! My education and enjoyment keeps expanding thanks to this forum!  :D
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Anahata

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I'm a melodeon player. What's your excuse?
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Matthew B

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Re: How important are keys (B/C, D/G, etc.) when choosing a melodeon?
« Reply #32 on: November 11, 2016, 01:56:49 PM »

???  "This video is not available"

Hmm.  Sorry about that.  Works fine from my end.  Maybe be a US/UK thing. 

Perhaps this version?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUtBiw2blOU

Whatever the case, its a link to the great Zydeco Force song "B-Flat"
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911377brian

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Re: How important are keys (B/C, D/G, etc.) when choosing a melodeon?
« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2016, 03:52:43 PM »

Sadly the last link isn't available either... :-\
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deltasalmon

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Re: How important are keys (B/C, D/G, etc.) when choosing a melodeon?
« Reply #34 on: November 11, 2016, 04:46:55 PM »

Both links worked for me
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Sean McGinnis
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Anahata

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Re: How important are keys (B/C, D/G, etc.) when choosing a melodeon?
« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2016, 04:48:10 PM »

Looks increasingly like a UK/US thing.
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Rog

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Re: How important are keys (B/C, D/G, etc.) when choosing a melodeon?
« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2016, 07:49:22 AM »

Yes it's a tricky business. The most irritating thing is learning the BC system after years of 4th apart playing. The D octave is on the pull so it's like learning to walk again. But as a generally straight forward instrument to learn, with bass, where playing up and down the row yields fast results in a shortish time and doesn't really demand a huge knowledge of musical theory....it can all be done by ear...then the 4th apart box is a good place to start. But if I ws choosing again I'd start with a BC... (:)

george garside

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Re: How important are keys (B/C, D/G, etc.) when choosing a melodeon?
« Reply #37 on: November 12, 2016, 09:44:56 AM »

trying to learn to play a BC box by learning to play tunes on it is likely to take quite a long time!.  Some may see it as boring or laborious but the quickest way is to first learn and practice scales  . DG etc  and one row players will of course be able to play in B & C on the row and complete newcomers to diatonic world  can well benefit from first learning the B & C scales on the row just to get the feel of  a push/pull box ( and they may well want to play some tunes in C anyway!)  Follow that by scales  GDAE  , don't worry about terms like such and such a scale being on the pull or on the push. Just think of the C scale as being the main road upon which all other scales are based with one, two or three etc 'diversions' onto the B row.  Or for those familier with a piano type keyboard think of the C scale as providing the 'white' notes  abd the B row the 'black' notes.

Once a scale is properly mastered so it can be played without conscious thought move onto simple tunes - do this for each scale.

The 'sharp'  sscales as above  if played on a CC# box will come out in the flat keys  AbEbBbF.

Alternatively  a BCC# box, which effectively is a BC and a CC# combined will provide both the sharp and the flat keys without any further learning plus  accidentals in both directions to facilitate bellows control and ease tricky bits of fingering.

george
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Rog

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Re: How important are keys (B/C, D/G, etc.) when choosing a melodeon?
« Reply #38 on: November 12, 2016, 04:19:46 PM »

I'm with you George on this. Learn the scales and arrpeggios. Duncan B has loaned me a bcc# box.

george garside

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Re: How important are keys (B/C, D/G, etc.) when choosing a melodeon?
« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2016, 03:25:39 PM »

Scale charts for BCC# are on the button box forum - linked to here

george
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