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Author Topic: Frans van der Aa melodeons  (Read 5670 times)

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Garry Probert

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Frans van der Aa melodeons
« on: November 27, 2016, 02:12:56 PM »

Hi guys does anyone have or has played a Frans van der Aa melodeon
i,m looking for a compact  2.5 row with a few reed changes ,and it appears you can effectively customise what you would like,cant find any info on anyone actually owning one

http://www.accordionmaker.com/home/!boot.php?taal=uk&muziek=aan

many thanks
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John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: Frans van der Aa melodeons
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2016, 03:05:05 PM »

Chris Ryall has a 3 row Van der Aa

Sir John
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Steve C.

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Re: Frans van der Aa melodeons
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2016, 03:55:28 PM »

I was just playing a Compact II at Button Box last week and it has massive bass, both from the bass and treble ends.  Amazing at what comes out and not sure how it's done.  Made my old Benny sound like a Lilly (!).
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robotmay

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Re: Frans van der Aa melodeons
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2016, 04:02:00 PM »

I've played on the 3-row 18-bass G/C box that I believe Clive now owns (if that's the one he got from Guy), and I liked it. Can't remember if that was a Compact or an Extension model, however. At the time I found the small bass buttons on the 18 bass quite tricky, but I think I'd be really into them now ;D

They're nice boxes, and they're often quite notably lighter than equivalent models from France/Italy.
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Garry Probert

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Re: Frans van der Aa melodeons
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2016, 04:22:30 PM »

Hi guys they sound perfect i will email the chap see what his build time frame is   
many thanks
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Corinto

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Re: Frans van der Aa melodeons
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2016, 04:43:54 PM »

Terms of delivery is now 20 months.

See = http://www.accordionmaker.com/superb/?taal=uk&muziek=aan
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fc diato

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Re: Frans van der Aa melodeons
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2016, 06:01:29 PM »

I spent quite a bit of time with 2.5 Compact at the Button Box in August, but was disappointed. Yes, great bass, absolutely amazing ease of play, lovely and powerful sound, but .... would run out of air.
I did press the bellows together gently without pressing buttons and they did move, albeit slowly to be sure (vs my Casta Dony which completely resists). Alas, there was no one there who could answer my question about that or even check if my impression was right - only a perfectly friendly women who was mighty peeved that I had done that ('you damage the box when you do that!') Oops.  Felt terrible, but is it true? 
How WOULD you test for air-tightness otherwise?
And if my diagnosis was correct, is it just an issue with that particular box? Do the Compacts run out of air simply because they are smaller?
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fc diato

Garry Probert

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Re: Frans van der Aa melodeons
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2016, 07:35:33 PM »

Quote
I did press the bellows together gently without pressing buttons and they did move
hi a little confused,you seem to have diagnosed a bellows leak or not airtight ,but then ask
Quote
Do the Compacts run out of air simply because they are smaller?

Fred :my brother thinks he,s a chicken..
Doctor: bring him in and i will cure him
Fred:we can't do that !
Doctor "why"  ...
Fred  :"we need the eggs" lol 
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fc diato

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Re: Frans van der Aa melodeons
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2016, 08:29:13 PM »


Garry probert:  "hi a little confused,you seem to have diagnosed a bellows leak or not airtight ,but then ask"

No, if you reread the question you'll see that I'm asking whether my way of testing a leak is correct or not. From what I've read, yes. But the oft-praised-on-this-forum Button Box person told me I did a terrible thing. My reaction is not to assume that my few years of playing and reading a few sites makes me know more than her. 
So I asked more knowledgeable people here. 

I think you did perhaps answer my question, but the mockery does not give me confidence in that answer.  Are only experts allowed to ask questions on the forum?

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fc diato

squeezy

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Re: Frans van der Aa melodeons
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2016, 08:48:37 PM »

I spent quite a bit of time with 2.5 Compact at the Button Box in August, but was disappointed. Yes, great bass, absolutely amazing ease of play, lovely and powerful sound, but .... would run out of air.

...

Do the Compacts run out of air simply because they are smaller?


It's very difficult to damage a box by pushing and pulling it without any button pressed unless you are doing it with a great deal of force, and even then the majority of instruments will release the pressure through the springs giving way on the pallets.  Most instruments, especially used ones, have some degree of air that will escape from somewhere in the assembly that doesn't noticably affect the playability.

I think what you've identified here is that to get "great bass" you need lots of air to pass over a large bass reed (well, several bass reeds normally), far more than you need for higher notes.  Combine that with an instrument that declares itself to be "compact" and therefore having less air capacity in the bellows, you end up with an instrument which feels like it runs out of air quicker than other boxes.
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Squeezy

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fc diato

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Re: Frans van der Aa melodeons
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2016, 09:04:52 PM »

Thanks squeezy. 

I did commit a bit of thread drift there - apologies.
My original intent had been to report my own experience of a VanDA, but then realized it might have been an issue just with that specific one. A bit of both it seems, which could be relevant to the original question.
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fc diato

playandteach

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Re: Frans van der Aa melodeons
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2016, 09:19:07 PM »

For what it's worth, I didn't read Garry's response as mockery, just that it reminded him of a humorous situation. I also think your question is perfectly sensible. A leak may be a symptom or a coincidence.
It has been in my very limited experience that a small leak is less noticeable when the pallettes are open, as the air takes the path of least resistance, and that I have noticed boxes that are thirsty whilst also having small leaks that are a secondary issue.
I admittedly don't know what I'm talking about compared to the real buffs - but sometimes out of the mouths of babes comes... (projectile vomiting, probably in this case).
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Garry Probert

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Re: Frans van der Aa melodeons
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2016, 09:56:58 PM »

Quote
For what it's worth, I didn't read Garry's response as mockery
thanks no rebuke was intended ,just reminded me of the big bucket with a hole v the small bucket story lol
In my short time of dissecting melodeons that pesky escaping air finds the most ingenious places !! after new gaskets pallets endless testing bellows pins etc a strap screw was the last little swine.
but when re spacing the buttons on the project liliput ,the difference in tention of the old springs was awful i have a concertina spring jig so have made new ones and i thinks that's had a bigger effect on air loss that i had assumed 
 

Having now watched several videos of frans melodeons being played and his workshop video 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nBgOYM0DTM 

they sound great and appear to be beautifully constructed "I want one"
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deltasalmon

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Re: Frans van der Aa melodeons
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2016, 12:08:43 AM »

I have one but it's only a 2-row. For what it's worth, I believe mine came a few months sooner than what was listed on the website at the time of order. He also updated me with pictures along the way and I thought the shipping (overnight and transatlantic) was top quality. The box of course is also top quality and I appreciate that Frans was willing to do a custom order that many other 2-row button box makers wouldn't bother with.
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Sean McGinnis
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Frans van der Aa melodeons
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2016, 11:59:50 AM »

Mine is a C#DG 18 bass
.
 o Frans is lovely chap to deal with  (:)  He tries for 'state of the art' - big innovator
 o You 'gotta' go for the pain finish - otherwise its not a VdAa?  (He does do grained
    wood too - Hartwin Dhoore has one - see videos below on my visit
o Always good quality reeds and a nice balanced sound ('very popular in Irish circles')
o my bass end has been absolutely solid. I have had the odd repair   on right end,
   mainly his hot-glued pallettes comming off the wires. and several are now superglued.
  But it the box has been 'hammered' over 4 years now.
o Woodwork, bellows have been totally sound.

VdAa compact's big plus is the reamed-down reed plates allowing more reeds in a row. So I have a box 2-3cm smaller in all dimensions than a Casta or Gaillard, yet he has crammed THREE voices in there.   The bellows are adequate if you play on row, and get a natural balance of air

Playing 'on the pull' (for me that's Cm, Gm, Bb) I do sometimes wish I had a longer left arm. There is enough play in the bellows, but (maths) volume = length x cross-section and the latter is always less in a compact box?   It would be better if it had a larger air hole, allowing quicker refill between music phrases.   

So if you want to play MML voicing ... just about adequate provides that includes push and pull bits. As 'mainly a singer' nowadays I commonly just use its luscious L voice, solo, with no problems.

Frans offers the same kit in non compact form, and that means bellows of same capacity as anyone elses.

 2013  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nBgOYM0DTM part 1
 visit   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uZmT3RdISI   part 2

My other box is a Gaillard - same system except French keys - F#GC with 18 bass.  Large box but 'only room for 2 voices' - emphasising Frans's skill in downsizing? It does have 2 more buttons on right - 11/12/11 layout. It is perhaps more robust and slightly more elegant under the fingers.  However it weighs about a kg more and is just too big to fit in budget airlinehand luggage. 

In practice I've been carrying the VdAa on on nearly all my various expeditions, and will take it to Malmo in April (scandi squeeze in, Easyjet to Copenhagen, train and bus). It is a truly  practical  box for any globe trotting melodeonista.  Hope this helps
« Last Edit: November 28, 2016, 12:08:05 PM by Chris Ryall »
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Clive Williams

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Re: Frans van der Aa melodeons
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2016, 12:32:59 PM »

I've played on the 3-row 18-bass G/C box that I believe Clive now owns (if that's the one he got from Guy), and I liked it. Can't remember if that was a Compact or an Extension model, however. At the time I found the small bass buttons on the 18 bass quite tricky, but I think I'd be really into them now ;D

They're nice boxes, and they're often quite notably lighter than equivalent models from France/Italy.

Yep, that's me - it's a 18 bass Compact* in G/C/Acc. You do get your head around the small bass buttons after a while (I play Stradella too, so that probably helps!) - though I confess to not using the extra 6 bass buttons anywhere near as much as I thought I would. It's a nice box to play; it tends to get picked up and played quite a bit around the house, more so than the Mory that sits directly above it in the cabinet. Personally, I think the basses are a little 'unbalanced' to my taste - either too weedy, or too honking, depending on the reed settings, but never nicely in the middle like the Mory is. A personal taste thing, and something to do with my ear being tuned by 17 years of playing the Mory, I expect. Positioning and operation of registers/stops is also fairly unwieldy, to say the least. But that's nit-picking really. It plays beautifully, and the treble end has literally anything on it you could possibly want. Can't say I've ever noticed any air issues, but then I don't tend to use much air when playing normally.

*Actually, reading Chris' message, I *assume* it's a Compact, but now I'm not so sure! It's smaller than the Mory, but bigger than a Pokerwork by some distance.  [[[ It's 11/10/9, so it is indeed a Compact III - Thanks Chris #]]]

Chris Ryall

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Re: Frans van der Aa melodeons
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2016, 01:05:39 PM »

o Compact is 11/10/9 layout and is what I chuck into hand luggage
o Compact Extend appeared 2013 and is a bit bigger 12/11/10  standard 3 row layout.
   Harwin Dhoore took joyous delivery of one of these at Gooik Festival, the following year
o Frans (it appears) now doers a 'Compact superb III' too -  extra button (somehow!) 11/12/11

Comparing the 11/12/11 12 bass models

 van der Aa  C.S.III         Gaillard Saphir
  155 x 260mm 4kg        170 x 290mm 4.7kg

not bad at all - and I can support my little 'un on … a little finger! :|glug
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Frans van der Aa melodeons
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2020, 11:32:47 AM »

He’s presently putting out videos about how he makes things

  https://youtu.be/pK7FZK-Xeoc
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Steve C.

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Re: Frans van der Aa melodeons
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2020, 01:22:17 PM »

fc: have you ever played a Tommy with all 3 voices open?  Same thing. (to me).
I don't have the experience of many on the forum but I don't remember any box that was "perfectly" tight. 
Hold them vertical and they slowly open....(very slowly)
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fiddleboxdavey

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Re: Frans van der Aa melodeons
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2020, 11:16:18 PM »

I have a Vander Aa 3 voice Compact 2.5 with 12 basses. It’s about seven years old I think. Its my favourite box for gigging. LMM set up. 3 handy switches behind the treble keyboard which are easily accessible whilst playing. Also has 2 switches on the bass side to take out the lower bass reeds and thirds. I had Binci reeds fitted to it, screwed on individually on cork on the treble side. For comparison purposes I’ve a Dinn 2, a Tommy, Dino Bafetti 2 voice, various 3 & 4 voice Paolo Sopranis, Bertrand Gaillard 2 & 3 voice boxes. Also various other older Italian and German boxes. The Vander Aa still wins hands down for me- it’s a great size/weight to play for a 4 hour + dance. It’s a really versatile box. It has a brasher sound than the Gaillard boxes so it easily cuts through the sound in a 4/5 piece band to lead the dancing. I can’t say the basses are unbalanced on my box. It’s lovely to play and has absolutely no air loss issues!
I use LMM for a lot of the night playing for the dances but it’s nice to use the switches at the back of the keyboard to take out the low treble reeds when needed.
I got complaints at the volume of this box at sessions so it gets left at home if I get out through the week!
The cabinet work is lovely. The treble side reed blocks were not quite as tight a fit as they should have been though, as I found out to my cost- a story for another day. I should have been more specific about the tuning too when I ordered it. It arrived almost dry tuned and I should have gone for a wetter tuning for playing in a Scottish dance band. Also the tuning wasn’t as even throughout as it could have been when I received it.
Franz is really great to deal with though. I too was sent lots of photos from Franz as the box was being made.
Interestingly, I do not use the extra half row of buttons on the treble side anything as much as I thought I would!
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