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Author Topic: Shoulder/Neck Pain  (Read 890 times)

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stevejay

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Shoulder/Neck Pain
« on: January 20, 2017, 12:39:23 AM »

Due to years of below standard posture, I have been having pains in my neck and shoulder.

It's hard to change after all these years, but this is what I've done so far:

*Heating pad
*Pinpoint Massager https://www.amazon.com/Gaiam-Restore-Pinpoint-Back-Massager/dp/B00LY9P6BY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1484872878&sr=8-1&keywords=pinpoint+massager

*Chair Massage
*Stretches for neck shoulder (no routine yet)
*Bought a wireless keyboard for my laptop so I can get more ergonomic and get the screen at eye level
*Brought my not so heavy dumbbells out of storage to get going
*When I play I focus on sitting up STRAIGHT, and remind myself to stay RELAXED. Limit practice sessions now
*"Tall" walking, focusing on posture
*Tylenol or Advil occasionally
*Towel as lumbar support

Somewhere in there, this is melodeon related  ;)
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 12:42:10 AM by stevejay »
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robotmay

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Re: Shoulder/Neck Pain
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2017, 01:02:49 AM »

For the first time since I was a teenager, I've managed to make my shoulders ache from too much computer work (I tend to hunch when really into some programming). Possible downside of finally having a job with exciting work? :o
Happily enough, however, playing the melodeon helps me to relax and actually alleviates the aches.

...that's the excuse I'm using, anyway >:E

stevejay

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Re: Shoulder/Neck Pain
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2017, 01:42:22 AM »

I just saw that using a desk chair with higher arms takes stress off the shoulders, which in turn relieves neck pain.
Swapping chairs now to use one with arms.
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Shoulder/Neck Pain
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2017, 07:48:24 AM »

About 18months into my playing I realised over the Christmas break that I was getting really 'tired' arms and elbow twinges. It felt like I'd been carrying out heavy work continually with my arms, which I hadn't.
I reviewed my playing position, box position etc and it wasn't abnormally out in any way. As the Christmas break went on it seemed to ease.
I suspected my computer desk at work was more likely a culprit and on returning had it officially assessed. Though not a proper work station it was remarkably spot on.
Hmmm.......
Fairly soon afterwards, at work I lightly touched the desk at work and felt my arm go immediately weak. The pc tower was sat on the desk and the fan was very gently vibrating. The effect was to continually fire the muscles ever so gently in my arms - which over the course of a day has the effect of constant work.
I isolated the tower from the desk - and to my relief sorted the problem.

There are many  and varied causes of pain or discomfort, some as I discovered not always immediately obvious.
Hope things settle down stevejay
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stevejay

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Re: Shoulder/Neck Pain
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2017, 02:01:39 PM »

I know what you mean!

I think I am on to something regarding the left arm and shoulder/neck and extra support while I am at the computer.
Due to a condition, the lack of support is causing stress and pain. Hopefully the rolled towel on the arm of the chair
is giving the support I need.

Put a towel on the left arm of my chair to help support everything, and I'll see how this goes. Without being able to use a computer without pain,  I am sol.

Now have some empathy for people suffering with chronic pain. The bright side is maybe slight subtle changes offer relief! I see how it can effect someone mentally and physically.

Best,

Steve
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 03:50:58 PM by stevejay »
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Tufty

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Re: Shoulder/Neck Pain
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2017, 02:21:43 PM »

A couple of years ago I was in constant and growing pain - neck and shoulder. Bought a Tommy and am now fine, the heavier box now only comes out on special occasions!
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stevejay

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Re: Shoulder/Neck Pain
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2017, 03:47:43 PM »

Hi Tufty,

I don't think the melodeon caused my problems, but I'm going easy until it settles down.
I may have what is affectionately referred to as a "flare up"

I'm 56 now, so arthritis is not off the table.

PS Glad you are not in pain!! It's awful nothing seems funny, it diminishes focus for me.
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robotmay

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Re: Shoulder/Neck Pain
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2017, 05:47:07 PM »

I actually have the opposite problem in that I spend so much time at a computer that I now remove the armrests from any chair I have, as they caused me to get quite bad pains in my arms!
One of my previous bosses didn't want me to remove the arms of my chair in the office because it was a daft IKEA chair and the seat might have broken if I had. So they went on upside down instead; it looked like it had skis ;D

In general I find the recommended seating positions for computer use to be a bit uncomfortable. I don't think they were thought out with very prolonged use in mind. I must admit that I find being lazily reclined with a decent back support to be the most comfortable long-term. Raising your seat up higher so your arms come down onto the desk from above certainly helps too. Makes the reclining harder though!

malcolmbebb

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Re: Shoulder/Neck Pain
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2017, 06:27:09 PM »

In general I find the recommended seating positions for computer use to be a bit uncomfortable. I don't think they were thought out with very prolonged use in mind. I must admit that I find being lazily reclined with a decent back support to be the most comfortable long-term.
We get quite expensive chairs with adjustable everything, but I too find the slouch position more comfortable and have done for many years. Apparently it has been researched, and for at least some is better than officially approved sit up straight position. The occupational health lady gives me a dirty look each time she sees me.
I get a lot of arm problems at work, but on the whole they don't affect the melodeon. I do use back straps, and the most comfortable position is very different between my Hohner and the Dino.
My home chair is a basic "operator's chair", diverted from the skip, with the left armrest removed. Oddly enough, at home I sit forward to type.
With one Morris side, at practice, we always stand up to play. This is OK, even with arthritic hips, as we sit down in between. With the other side, we sit down to play, and I find this does cause back and shoulder issues and I have to be more careful how I sit, and also use the back strap when seated.
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Jack Campin

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Re: Shoulder/Neck Pain
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2017, 07:34:15 PM »

I was one of the first people in the UK to use a mouse (actually a puck, on the magnetic bitpad of a Perq workstation).  I developed shooting pains down my arm when using it, and thought it was RSI at first.  Turned out it was actually caused by a metabolic intolerance to anthocyanins and tannins (the red/purple pigments in fruit, and the polymerized forms of those in tea).  The worst things for setting the problem off were red cabbage, red wine, rowan jelly and strong tea.  (Beetroot is fine, the purple pigment in that is not an anthocyanin).

Once I cut my intake of those, and occasionally took gotu kola (which stimulates the thyroid and prods the detoxifying enzymes for those chemicals into doing their thing) the problem went away, with no change in my work posture or mouse usage.

Some kinds of beer and cider are high in tannin - consumption of those might correlate with melodeon playing.

(It's not an allergy - limited amounts are ok.  I'm probably heterozygous for the gene that codes an anthocyanin-degrading enzyme).

I first got the problem without recognizing it decades earlier, when I was drinking a lot of tea and found I was getting arthritis-like pains in my hips.  I've often wondered how many old people are suffering what they think is arthritis, actually caused by their tea intake.
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vof

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Re: Shoulder/Neck Pain
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2017, 09:59:00 PM »

I was one of the first people in the UK to use a mouse (actually a puck, on the magnetic bitpad of a Perq workstation).

Jack

Off-topic I know but was intrigued by your Perq reference. Wondered whether you had ICL/Dalkeith/ERCC connections but looking at your CV, I see it was via Glasgow Uni CS Dept. I never worked on Perq but spent most of the years 68-85 at ICL Bracknell working on VME/IDMS/SQL/CAFS. I'm 18 months older than you and I now find I have shoulder pain, probably caused by many years sat at computer terminals, but thankfully it does not yet hinder my very basic melodeon playing. I have cut down severely on my tea consumption recently so interested to read of your thoughts on the side effects of tannin. Not so happy that it implies I should cut down on red wine too though.  :(

Vince
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Vince O'Farrell
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Edward Jennings

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Re: Shoulder/Neck Pain
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2017, 10:02:57 PM »

That sounds a bit scary, Jack! Whilst I'm not completely T total, I drink an awful lot of it, it's just lovely! I've had lots of pains in the past few years which my doc puts down to arthritis (supported by x-ray) but maybe the tea isn't helping?
I don't play my melodeons for very long periods, so I don't think they're any problem.
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stevejay

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Re: Shoulder/Neck Pain
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2017, 11:07:26 PM »



I first got the problem without recognizing it decades earlier, when I was drinking a lot of tea and found I was getting arthritis-like pains in my hips.  I've often wondered how many old people are suffering what they think is arthritis, actually caused by their tea intake.

I drink a lot of green herbal tea! Who knows.
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Jack Campin

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Re: Shoulder/Neck Pain
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2017, 11:21:46 PM »

I don't think any herbal tea (mint, rooibos, maté...) has much tannin.  Real tea (green or brown) always does.  Red or purple fruit teas like blackcurrant will contain anthocyanins, though not an enormous amount.

If you cut the relevant drinks out, you'll know within a day if you have the same issue I did - it's not like some elimination diets where you have to wait for weeks before seeing results.  If you don't see a change, go back to your usual tea intake.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 11:24:03 PM by Jack Campin »
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stevejay

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Re: Shoulder/Neck Pain
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2017, 12:22:31 AM »

And coffee is recently toted as an anti-inflammatory, and possibly very good. This contradicts findings from a few years ago.


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gettabettabox

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Re: Shoulder/Neck Pain
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2017, 01:06:12 AM »

Forget the drugs.....Swimming. Move your joints with supported assistance.
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stevejay

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Re: Shoulder/Neck Pain
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2017, 03:17:21 AM »

Getabetta I agree 100% and I am trying to become more active for this reason.

Diet is important, but the body remains strong through exercise.
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ACE

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Re: Shoulder/Neck Pain
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2017, 09:18:43 AM »

When I used to work, I was a gardener, big strong arms etc. But hammering forks and spades into the ground for years gave me a lot of problems later on. I had to give up the melodeon for years because of the aches and pains. Then after tests it was found to be carpel tunnel problems. They slit my wrists ;) and after it all healed up no pains at all in my arms and shoulders. I would think this could be a common problem for box players especially some of those boxes with 'sharp' edges where the wrist connects. I only had the tingling in my fingers a few times so I did not connect it with the carpel tunnel syndrome. Worth getting checked out for it if you are having problems.
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Shoulder/Neck Pain
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2017, 09:45:13 AM »

Ace has a good point.
A friend is a one strapper, looong strap, plays vigorously and powerfully. About a year back he started getting a numb left arm and was being lined up for an op. Luckily it resolved before the surgery.
Though a relatively young chap, he's played like this since a very early age and pushing a box 3-5kg? With a right angle bend at the wrist is taking its toll.

Though it is a hugely debatable and personal choice, using 2 straps keeps the weight on both shoulders and usually keeps the body position away from extreme postures.
I looked at Bernard Loffets website, full of tips, in order to get a reasonable posture with the box, and tried to iron out any big bends in arm or wrist.
Poor posture can wreck the joints.
Q
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

stevejay

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Re: Shoulder/Neck Pain
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2017, 12:22:34 AM »

Just as a follow up, my shoulders and neck feel better today.
I'm trying to keep good posture, and set up my workstations ergonomically.
Thanks for all the replies :)
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