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[smiley]

At a session the other night a good friend asked me to play his new Gaillard B/C box (maybe he's luring me over to the dark side) and, being put on the spot, I could only think of a few G jigs to play that fitted nicely in their usual key on the C row - Blarney Pilgrim & the Kesh. The next day at home I remembered a few more standard Irish session tunes that suit playing up and down the C row e.g. Jim Wards (G), Out on the Ocean (G), Geese In The Bog (Am), Miss McLeod's (G) and Sweeney's polka in G.

Basically I guess any tunes that sound ok played in A, Bm or maybe Em on the D row would be candidates for a dyed-in-the-wool D/G player who wants to have a go at playing Irish session tunes on a B/C without having to work out where those F# and C# notes might lurk on the B row [ "old dogs and new tricks" ].

What other common Irish session tunes would suit being played just on the C row, assuming you're playing along with others in the usual session keys?

[george garside]

playing in G on the C row means you are already half way there to BC playing.  DG and BC are not worlds apart as many DGers believe . On a DG you can play on the row using the same  fingering for D or G  but if cross rows ;you immediately  bring in a different set of fingering. On a BC  playing across row ,as is normal, is arguably easier than 'cross rowing on a DG. There is of course the lack of bass problem for English music on an 8 bass BC but with 12 stradella that is sorted

george

[richard.fleming]

Not worlds apart? I beg to differ.

[Gromit]

I play an F sharp in The Kesh jig, Out on the Ocean and Miss Mcleod's on a B/C. Not sure of the other tunes you mention as I don't play them and I can't think of any tunes that can be played just on the C row.

[Stiamh]

Any basically pentatonic tune in G would work. Willie Coleman's jig, Foxhunter's reel, Christmas Eve. And any pentatonic tune that is normally played in other keys will work if you stick into G.

Often you'll find that missing out F#s that might be put into those tunes makes them sound better, i.e. finish the phrases in Willie Coleman's with AGG G3 instead of the common AGF# G (the F# will soon start to sound cheesy when you refrain from playing it).

Also many "A minor" tunes such as Lilting Banshee or Laurel Tree are F#-less. The Mist-Covered Mountain can easily be played without F#s. You'll need to play them in what is "B minor" fingering to a D-row player, of course. But if you play Mist-Covered Mountain in "A minor" fingering it will sound in the original G key and fiddlers will show respect, even if most fluters and box players will be flummoxed.

Edited to add a PS: D minor tunes will miraculously become a piece of cake on the C row. Just play them in Em fingering and a whole world of great inaccessible tunes will open up to you.

[Andrew Wigglesworth]

Stiamh and George have it right ... but it's not a mystery, even to many English players.

Play in A  on a D/G box, then you get G on a C one row. E dorian gets you D dorian on a C one row 4 stop. B minor gets you A minor on a one row 4 stop. All pretty familiar territory for the English one row C player I think.

I'm not having a go at the OP, it's a nice discovery ... but this is basically how diatonic rows on these boxes work.

[Stiamh]

Andrew, I'm sure that Ian (the OP) knows that. I think he was just asking for tune ideas for the next time he gets to have a go on that Gaillard.

Here's another few: The Bag of Spuds, The Blacksmith, The Caucus Reel, The Killavil Reel (Sean Ryan's), The Legacy Jig, Lark on the Strand, Ship in Full Sail (G), Tom Billy's Jig (the G one), Health to the Ladies (in G), Merrily Kissed the Quaker (skip the 3rd part) etc. etc.

[george garside]

The push/pull sequence we all know  for on the row playing in home key eg G& D or B & C is the same i.e. push/pull  push/pull  push/pull   pull/push

to play in G on the C row of a BC is  simply a question of learning a different push /pull sequence with one note being taken from the B row i.e.

push/pull  pull/push  pull/push          pull
                                              pull/ + F# on B row.

as others have said using the  G scale of a BC box will give the A scale on  a DG box but without the G# (unless you have one as an accidental within reach)   The G sharpless A scale on the G row of a Dg is ideal for many Scottish pipe tunes - try something simple eg 100 pipers & cock of the north.

george

[boxcall]

Britches full of stitches played a fifth away on C box comes out in G
Cock of the north is another one using fingering you already know playing in A & G on D box assuming that these are known.


I thought Lilting banshee was A Dorian? As it noted as key of G . So played the same on a C row ( versus D row ) comes out G dorian.  although I can see it could be done starting on E push.

[gettabettabox]

All that's needed once row friendly tunes are identified...is a different rhythmical approach, approprite ornamentation, learn to use the the basses in a different manner and finally change the tempo.

Only then...will I be able to go from playing B/C to mastering the D/G.   

[Andrew Wigglesworth]

Andrew, I'm sure that Ian (the OP) knows that. I think he was just asking for tune ideas for the next time he gets to have a go on that Gaillard.

Here's another few: The Bag of Spuds, The Blacksmith, The Caucus Reel, The Killavil Reel (Sean Ryan's), The Legacy Jig, Lark on the Strand, Ship in Full Sail (G), Tom Billy's Jig (the G one), Health to the Ladies (in G), Merrily Kissed the Quaker (skip the 3rd part) etc. etc.

Sorry, it was a clumsy attempt to counter the "worlds apart" comment above.

Incidental to this, I once went a family birthday party weekend where I had a chance to have some extended experiments on a C#/D box. For a D/G player its probably a system thats easier to start getting round intuitively and obviously D and E dorian were straightforward, A and B minor in their normal place, but I was pretty quickly playing in G and A dorian and even sorting out basses. Yes, I know there's certainly more to it than my initial simple experiments with the system but it's not such a "worlds apart" situation in this case. btw. I've always liked the idea of a C#/D box, but probably will never get one at this stage; all of these systems have their own sets of compromises anyway.

[smiley]

Thanks for all those suggestions of familiar Irish tunes I could try out on the C row. Gromit reminded me that I've taken for granted the ways you can hide the lack of an F# when playing G tunes on the C row. The top one-row players must have all sorts of tricks up their sleeves, but just holding the G note through a G-F#-G sequence, or playing an A or D note instead of the F# are a couple of ideas. The same thing works for avoiding the G# when playing in A major on the D row. I'd be interested in hearing of any videos that concentrate on demonstrating techniques such as these.

BTW I'm only thinking about playing the melodies on the C row, so the basses aren't an issue. There have been other discussions about B/C basses in this forum over the years (which went straight over my head).

I wrote out a couple of favourite old reels that I thought would suit the C row (see attached PDF) and it led me to think about the ways the old one-row players adapted tunes to suit the limitations of the 10 keys - but that's another whole topic!  Playing the A and B notes in the top octave (e.g. in the 2nd part of Galway Rambler) feels uncomfortable to this D/G player - who wishes he hadn't been avoiding the 'dusty end' so much. I suppose it'd be easier for a G/C player to pick up a B/C box and play up at the knee end.

cheers, Ian

[Theo]

You can play Athol Highlanders in G entirely on the C row.

[smiley]

You can play Athol Highlanders in G entirely on the C row.

That's true, but playing the tune in G at a session around here would be a lonely affair and draw some puzzled looks.

[Theo]

Quite right too, but when I venture into that strange land south of the Trent G seems to be the standard key for it. Still can't fathom out why.

[Andrew Wigglesworth]

Quite right too, but when I venture into that strange land south of the Trent G seems to be the standard key for it. Still can't fathom out why.

I've commented before on this, but, we must be in some strange island here in the midlands, because I've never heard it played in anything other than A, and I can imagine the comments if someone decided to play it in G round here. And quite right too.

[Malcolm Clapp]

So Athol H in Am on a G/C/F box would be frowned upon too....especially played as a reel 

(Sorry, just noodling on a 3 row I'm fixing while reading this thread.)

[Andrew Wigglesworth]

So Athol H in Am on a G/C/F box would be frowned upon too....especially played as a reel 

(Sorry, just noodling on a 3 row I'm fixing while reading this thread.)

We'd send you to Coventry  :-P

[Malcolm Clapp]

So Athol H in Am on a G/C/F box would be frowned upon too....especially played as a reel 

(Sorry, just noodling on a 3 row I'm fixing while reading this thread.)

We'd send you to Coventry  :-P

Aaaaaarrrggghh! Anywhere but Coventry, though not Scotland as it's probably a hanging offence in those parts....

[smiley]

I'm wondering what Malcolm did to deserve being transported to the colonies in the first place ... accordion crimes?