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[Winston Smith]

P&T, are you sure that you aren't in the "Diplomatic Corps"?

[playandteach]

Just aware that many people here have much more experience than I do.

I want to join in the discussions, and even took the risk of sending a regular player a comment about playing that I thought was not ok to air on a thread, but I really only offer opinions not definitive knowledge.

[boxer]

I always think that a box player needs to have no less precise control of his/her left (bellows) arm than a good fiddler does over his right (bowing) arm.  In some ways the bellows and the bow have a similar influence on the creation and shaping of their respective instruments' sounds.

Being right handed puts the bellows under the control of your least capable arm and perhaps makes the matter of controlling pressure across the reeds more difficult than it could be. 

You could argue that you need your right hand to do all that clever stuff with the keyboard, but remember that fiddlers do all their fingerboard gymnastics with their left hands.

Have any of you right-handers with bellows problems considered playing your boxes upside down to lessen the problem?  I've seen a left-hander doing this (paradoxically, to put the bellows on his right hand) so, technically, it can be done.

I confess  that I'm left-handed myself and play the fiddle and banjo left handed, but I play box (the right way up) right handed, which puts the bellows under control of my best arm.  Despite this, I've found bellows control to be the most challenging aspect of learning box, and the biggest influence on the overall quality of my playing.

[george garside]

The 'red hot' bit is fairly standard in most accordion tutor books  and I teach  it for both melodeon and stradella bass.  It encourages crisp bass playing rather than the 'turgid'  style that many never get beyond.  ~The important thing is to  develop the skills needed for the red hot technique which many find difficult to get the hang of. Once that is mastered  other , easier , bass tehniques  eg   legato  can be used where appropriate but not be inflicted on tunes that require a rhythmic staccato accompaniment.

the 'red hot' technique can also be developed to enable the aural conjuring trick  to be used to quieten the bass  as and when required !

george



 

[Jack Campin]

Isn't it a feature rather than a bug?

Bach uses it intentionally in some of his organ music (I forget what) - the melody line pulses because of what the pedals are doing.  It only works if the organ is handpumped - electric blowers are so high-powered they overwhelm the intended effect.

[george garside]

I sometimes GENTLY pulse the bellwos to add an additional layer of rhythm  particularly in waltzes and some  marches. i.e  a slight push push push for a waltz but only when the bellows are going in the same direction for several treble notes.  But of course its quite different doing it on purpose rather than accidentaly!

george

[Anahata]

That kind of pulsing also helps the tune to stand out over a sustained bass note.

[playandteach]

In this extract from a Stephane Delicq workshop his left hand energy is on the release of the button. Yes, there is fresh air between button and finger, but what I was trying to highlight was that the end of the note should be controlled, not created by the attack of the finger.
By the way which Castagnari model is that?

[xgx]

These staccato enough? 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk8H1SlkvRY

[george garside]

nice 4 row continental box not sure what the bass end is ? bass/maj chord??

george

[george garside]

In this extract from a Stephane Delicq workshop his left hand energy is on the release of the button. Yes, there is fresh air between button and finger, but what I was trying to highlight was that the end of the note should be controlled, not created by the attack of the finger.
By the way which Castagnari model is that?

Precisely! the end of the note is very controlled wit the 'red hot button' technique  as touching something red hot makes for letting go very rapidly anad neatly 

george

[xgx]

might be alternating bass and major chord

Steirische rather than 'continental' (saves confusion with CBA)

[playandteach]

In this extract from a Stephane Delicq workshop his left hand energy is on the release of the button. Yes, there is fresh air between button and finger, but what I was trying to highlight was that the end of the note should be controlled, not created by the attack of the finger.
By the way which Castagnari model is that?

Precisely! the end of the note is very controlled wit the 'red hot button' technique  as touching something red hot makes for letting go very rapidly anad neatly 
george

Looks like we were saying the same thing after all. I would point a link to the attack finger technique, but it's not fair on anyone to use their video in that way.

[playandteach]

nice 4 row continental box not sure what the bass end is ? bass/maj chord??

george

I think (despite my dislike of Polkas) that the playing and the box are both great. I'd love to have a go on one.

[Huw Adamson]

On the red hot bass end vs rhythmic pulsing debate, I generally do the former, because I don't play many waltzes, and I usually play on one row, (or at least use playing on one row as a starting point for an arrangement,) resulting in a great deal of changes in bellow direction. Indeed, in one of my most frequently played waltzes there is a point I have to change direction suddenly for a single note, and it is difficult to keep the left hand smooth and even. For that tune I don't have any air space between finger and button. Still though, it's a stylistic choice, and one that is different for different tunes.
Hopefully I'm still making sense.
I can certainly see why air space is taught, particularly on stradella bass. Makes it easier to change button, and avoids what my dad called 'sludge-pumping'. I don't know whether the phrase was his own or more commonly used, but essentially a turgid unvaried bass end for, say, a morris dance tune, deadening the natural rhythm.
In terms of avoiding pulses on the treble side I agree it is down to bellows control, and disguising the pulse by varying the pressure and volume over the course of the note.
Okay, now I'm really not making sense. It all works in my head I assure you.