Melodeon.net Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to the new melodeon.net forum

Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Now that I've got the melodeon(s) - where would YOU start?  (Read 1525 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Melissa Sinclair

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 220
  • Got my first squeeze... box(es)
    • Melissa's Melodeons
Now that I've got the melodeon(s) - where would YOU start?
« on: February 06, 2017, 12:09:34 AM »

They arrived yesterday afternoon. Once they had time to get to temp, I played the GC in the evening. Because I was impatient and just wanted to try something, I watched, practiced, and tried to play along with playandteach's Valse Triste session 1.  I recorded my attempt (as I promised I would...no shame in being a beginner!). If you are curious, you can find them here. They are at the bottom of the post:  http://melissasmelodeons.blogspot.com/2017/02/everything-has-arrived-and-trying-it-out.html

I also received the Milleret and Pignol book on Friday evening..

Curious what you found easiest for learning, especially if you are coming to this with no background of the two hands doing different things at the same time. As I thought, this will be something that will just need to be hammered into my head with practice.

I am reading that book now...couple questions as I get used to the notation. I attached two photos.

In the first photo, What is B a. Assuming it's counting rhythm (how they notate it in France) (1 and 2 and?) or????

Second photo: Top are the notes written on the staff. Below it is fingering help (small). C line.... is another way to write the note. 3 is C... and that is 3rd note in on the top row and to play it is push? And then the basses are C  and C chord (push)... which is the bottom lower row on left hand?

In a way, I think this would be easier to read if it were just written on a staff, wouldn't it? is this typical? I don't particularly like that the rhythm is the top and bottom lines with "noise" between. Or is it more typical to have it written by numbers than standard sheet music/notes on a staff?

Ok... about to go practice for day two. :|||:



« Last Edit: February 06, 2017, 12:11:45 AM by Melissa Sinclair »
Logged
Plunking on my 1st box: Vintage burl Hohner in GC,  a lonely Hohner Liliput in CF, and a borrowed Streb to have a "silent Melodeon" and a melodeon of many keys!

Steve_freereeder

  • Grumpy old git (sometimes)
  • Content Manager
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5036
  • MAD is inevitable. Keep Calm and Carry On
    • Lizzie Dripping
Re: Now that I've got the melodeon(s) - where would YOU start?
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2017, 12:38:40 AM »

In the first photo, What is B a. Assuming it's counting rhythm (how they notate it in France) (1 and 2 and?) or????
In French:
B = Basse (play bass button)
a = Accord (play chord button)

Quote
Second photo: Top are the notes written on the staff. Below it is fingering help (small). C line.... is another way to write the note. 3 is C... and that is 3rd note in on the top row and to play it is push? And then the basses are C  and C chord (push)... which is the bottom lower row on left hand?
The rows are notated for a G/C melodeon. The rows are indicated by the letters C and G. The numbers on the rows are for the button numbers counting from the 'chin-end' (assuming a 3rd button start for the 'Doh' of the scale, as most G/C boxes are). The numbers on the row marked 'doigté' indicate the recommended fingering to be used.

1 = index finger, 2 = middle finger, 3 = ring finger, 4 = little finger. The thumb is not generally used for playing the buttons, although some players do so (notably Stephane Delicq, sadly no longer with us).
« Last Edit: February 06, 2017, 12:42:28 AM by Steve_freereeder »
Logged
Steve
Sheffield, UK.
www.lizziedripping.org.uk

Melissa Sinclair

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 220
  • Got my first squeeze... box(es)
    • Melissa's Melodeons
Re: Now that I've got the melodeon(s) - where would YOU start?
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2017, 12:41:12 AM »

In the first photo, What is B a. Assuming it's counting rhythm (how they notate it in France) (1 and 2 and?) or????
In French:
B = Basse (play bass button)
a = Accord (play chord button)

Quote
Second photo: Top are the notes written on the staff. Below it is fingering help (small). C line.... is another way to write the note. 3 is C... and that is 3rd note in on the top row and to play it is push? And then the basses are C  and C chord (push)... which is the bottom lower row on left hand?
The rows are notated for a G/C melodeon. The rows are indicated by the letters C and G. The numbers on the rows are for the button numbers counting from the 'chin-end' (assuming a 3rd button start for the 'Doh' of the scale, as most G/C boxes are). The numbers on the row marked 'doigt' indicate the recommended fingering to be used.

Ok, so I have the bottom part correct... And didn't realize they were talking about note and chord - of course... thank you. Listening on the digital CD helped clarify too.
Logged
Plunking on my 1st box: Vintage burl Hohner in GC,  a lonely Hohner Liliput in CF, and a borrowed Streb to have a "silent Melodeon" and a melodeon of many keys!

Steve_freereeder

  • Grumpy old git (sometimes)
  • Content Manager
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5036
  • MAD is inevitable. Keep Calm and Carry On
    • Lizzie Dripping
Re: Now that I've got the melodeon(s) - where would YOU start?
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2017, 12:56:35 AM »

In a way, I think this would be easier to read if it were just written on a staff, wouldn't it? is this typical? I don't particularly like that the rhythm is the top and bottom lines with "noise" between. Or is it more typical to have it written by numbers than standard sheet music/notes on a staff?
I know that you are a music-reader (as I am, and have been since I was 9 years old) but with the melodeon, try to treat any music notation as a short-hand. Don't try to take it too literally - in the sense that you shouldn't expect every chord and bass note to be written in standard staff notation as if it were piano music. It's just too complex and unnecessary to notate it that way. And anyway, not all melodeon chord notes are tuned in the same way: for example one manufacturer might have the G chord tuned in root position, another might have it tuned in 1st or 2nd inversion.

Also, don't try to learn by reading everything from written notation all the time, even at the beginning. Be adventurous and play by ear too, right from the start. Try to play something like 'Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star' or 'Frere Jacques' on the inside row (C row) without looking up any notation, and using an oom-pah style bass-chord accompaniment. The melodeon is a great instrument for playing by ear and not getting hung up with notated music. Find out how it works by playing simple folk tunes or hymn tunes by ear, as well as using your written music tutor books.
Logged
Steve
Sheffield, UK.
www.lizziedripping.org.uk

Melissa Sinclair

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 220
  • Got my first squeeze... box(es)
    • Melissa's Melodeons
Re: Now that I've got the melodeon(s) - where would YOU start?
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2017, 01:17:21 AM »

I have muscle fatigue in the left hand. I don't think my left hand is used to moving in that way!
Logged
Plunking on my 1st box: Vintage burl Hohner in GC,  a lonely Hohner Liliput in CF, and a borrowed Streb to have a "silent Melodeon" and a melodeon of many keys!

Anahata

  • This mind intentionally left blank
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4343
  • Oakwood D/G, C/F Club, 1-rows in C,D,G
    • Treewind Music
Re: Now that I've got the melodeon(s) - where would YOU start?
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2017, 07:38:55 AM »

The muscle fatigue is partly because you are using muscles that you haven't used much before, and partly because with the concentration of learning to play a new instrument you tend to tense up. The muscles with strengthen with practice (don't overdo it to start with) and the tension will go as you get used to it, though you can help by deliberately relaxing muscles that don't need to be tensed up whenever you notice it happeneing.
Logged
I'm a melodeon player. What's your excuse?
Music recording and web hosting: www.treewind.co.uk
Mary Humphreys and Anahata: www.maryanahata.co.uk
Ceilidh band: www.fendragon.co.uk

Thrupenny Bit

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3656
  • happily squeezing away in Devon
Re: Now that I've got the melodeon(s) - where would YOU start?
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2017, 07:53:46 AM »

Steve and Anahata both have good advice.
Take time away from formal learning and go on an adventure, as Steve says, play something simple like a nursery rhyme or a well known tune of any sort. It's great to find those 'corner's of a melodeon and allows you to simply get acquainted with this odd instrument. Getting acquainted is incredibly useful, especially for you.
A lot of us have no or very little musical knowledge so have to learn music and the box at the same time. You've got a good knowledge, of music, you just need to figure out how this contraption works.
.....but gently, don't go at it for too long. Very difficult to be sensible with any new toy!

As a typical Brit, I drink tea.
A cup of tea is a good time for me to play. I sit down and slowly drink it, and when finished the cuppa, or it's getting cold I stop, take a break and come back later.....with another cup!
It breaks up my learning and gives me a break away from it all.
Enjoy!
Q
 
Logged
Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Lyra

  • Respected Sage
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 487
Re: Now that I've got the melodeon(s) - where would YOU start?
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2017, 08:03:40 AM »

I'm gathering you are in a bit of a melodeon desert like me (sorry Dave), so you might also consider having a couple of skype sessions with the ever patient Mel Biggs - she can talk you through stuff to get you off on the right foot. (or hand, rather) (and the left one too) while answering all your questions.


(other skype teachers may be available)
Logged

arty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 959
Re: Now that I've got the melodeon(s) - where would YOU start?
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2017, 12:46:21 PM »

I am smiling to myself, as I read about the beginning of your new musical adventure, because I was in your position a little less than 5 years ago. I hope you get as much joy out of learning to play as I have had and continue to have.
You have been given very good advice already, by people far more qualified than me, Steve, Anahata, Thruppeny Bit, but I would like to add one thing....as a complete beginner, don't practice for too long at one time. It is better to practice for 15 minutes several times a day, than to play for 1 or 2 hours at one go. The muscle fatigue in your left hand is suggesting that you are doing too much. Also, playing for short bursts keeps your brain alert and helps to avoid teaching your brain the wrong things.
Twinkle Twinkle Little Star is where I started and I was really amused to see this, my first video, made soon after I got my first melodeon, a Hohner Pre-Pokerwork C/F  https://youtu.be/ZgKq86yb6tA
The next piece I learnt was Baa Baa Black Sheep, which is a lot more difficult !
Good luck and enjoy yourself...it's the most fun you can have with your clothes on!!!  :D
Logged
Pre-Pokerwork C/F, Castagnari Laura G/C, Castagnari Dony G/C

Melissa Sinclair

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 220
  • Got my first squeeze... box(es)
    • Melissa's Melodeons
Re: Now that I've got the melodeon(s) - where would YOU start?
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2017, 01:57:45 PM »

Oh thank you so much for the wisdom! It's nice to read while I wake up, breakfast, and get ready for work in the morning (going in later to avoid the DC rush hour traffic).

I took a go at Twinkle Twinkle Little Star and since that lands right where I was practicing last night, it was kind of simple - slowly. Slowly is all I can do now as thinking has to happen with each note.  (:) I can "sense" what jump needs to be made... but none of this is intuitive to me yet, of course!

Then I added in some basses with it - not in any intricate pattern, quarter notes, but when I was playing CCGG,AAG, I did CcGg,DdGg (probably a weird way to write that!) in the left hand and so on. You are right, being able to plunk out something familiar felt good. What surprised me, is that I already knew what direction the bellows needed to go - lines on a staff - push, spaces on a staff pull... Ironically, somehow... some knowledge of the horn helped me... I think of lined notes as "open" (no fingers) on the horn, and fingered notes on the spaces, so open/fingered, correspond with push/pull. At least for one row playing. Hey, any help that I can get from past experiences, great!
« Last Edit: February 06, 2017, 02:09:07 PM by Melissa Sinclair »
Logged
Plunking on my 1st box: Vintage burl Hohner in GC,  a lonely Hohner Liliput in CF, and a borrowed Streb to have a "silent Melodeon" and a melodeon of many keys!

Melissa Sinclair

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 220
  • Got my first squeeze... box(es)
    • Melissa's Melodeons
Re: Now that I've got the melodeon(s) - where would YOU start?
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2017, 02:01:21 PM »

I am smiling to myself, as I read about the beginning of your new musical adventure, because I was in your position a little less than 5 years ago. I hope you get as much joy out of learning to play as I have had and continue to have.

Twinkle Twinkle Little Star is where I started and I was really amused to see this, my first video, made soon after I got my first melodeon, a Hohner Pre-Pokerwork C/F  https://youtu.be/ZgKq86yb6tA
The next piece I learnt was Baa Baa Black Sheep, which is a lot more difficult !

Your Twinkle Twinkle is twice as fast and better chords than I just plunked out!  ;D But I suppose 2-3 hours on this thing and just expecting to play it lickity split is a bit unrealistic. I'll watch the view later too figure out the fingering/chords later after work (if I have time) this evening.
Logged
Plunking on my 1st box: Vintage burl Hohner in GC,  a lonely Hohner Liliput in CF, and a borrowed Streb to have a "silent Melodeon" and a melodeon of many keys!

Anahata

  • This mind intentionally left blank
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4343
  • Oakwood D/G, C/F Club, 1-rows in C,D,G
    • Treewind Music
Re: Now that I've got the melodeon(s) - where would YOU start?
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2017, 02:07:07 PM »

I already knew what direction the bellows needed to go - lines on a staff - push, spaces on a staff pull...

That only works from C to A, then it's upside down in the next octave!

More useful and portable (and a good example of why the melodeon is suited to playing by ear) is: notes in the tonic chord - push, other notes - pull. That will work everywhere, when you're playing in the home key of one row on a melodeon in any key.
Logged
I'm a melodeon player. What's your excuse?
Music recording and web hosting: www.treewind.co.uk
Mary Humphreys and Anahata: www.maryanahata.co.uk
Ceilidh band: www.fendragon.co.uk

Melissa Sinclair

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 220
  • Got my first squeeze... box(es)
    • Melissa's Melodeons
Re: Now that I've got the melodeon(s) - where would YOU start?
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2017, 02:14:01 PM »

I already knew what direction the bellows needed to go - lines on a staff - push, spaces on a staff pull...

That only works from C to A, then it's upside down in the next octave!

More useful and portable (and a good example of why the melodeon is suited to playing by ear) is: notes in the tonic chord - push, other notes - pull. That will work everywhere, when you're playing in the home key of one row on a melodeon in any key.

Of course it can't be that simple! :D Just when I think I have something, I learn, I dont! And I had to google tonic chord. I know nothing of chords, so I will learn, but easy enough to think of CEGBb and I'm happy to have a piano at home to play it and hear it - thus hopefully, learning it.
Logged
Plunking on my 1st box: Vintage burl Hohner in GC,  a lonely Hohner Liliput in CF, and a borrowed Streb to have a "silent Melodeon" and a melodeon of many keys!

Julian S

  • Respected Sage
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 312
  • D/G Pastourelle 2, Dony, Giordy, Binci etc
Re: Now that I've got the melodeon(s) - where would YOU start?
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2017, 02:15:47 PM »

Not for me to advise on technique - many better qualified than me !  BUT, thinking back to when I started playing nigh on forty years ago, I spent a huge amount of time listening to recordings, and gradually absorbing tunes - playing along with lots of repetition (must have driven housemates and neighbours mad !) With the ways we can slow tunes and change keys now this is much easier- and whatsmore we can often watch the players. It's a bit like the immersion method of learning a language - developing listening skills is really important. OK I do read music, but learning to play by ear and pick up melodies quickly has so many advantages. So I suggest spending as much time as possible listening to some of the great melodeon players out there - as well as enjoying the challenges of learning to play a wonderful instrument. Have fun !
Logged

Melissa Sinclair

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 220
  • Got my first squeeze... box(es)
    • Melissa's Melodeons
Re: Now that I've got the melodeon(s) - where would YOU start?
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2017, 02:23:13 PM »

Not for me to advise on technique - many better qualified than me !  BUT, thinking back to when I started playing nigh on forty years ago, I spent a huge amount of time listening to recordings, and gradually absorbing tunes - playing along with lots of repetition (must have driven housemates and neighbours mad !) With the ways we can slow tunes and change keys now this is much easier- and whatsmore we can often watch the players. It's a bit like the immersion method of learning a language - developing listening skills is really important. OK I do read music, but learning to play by ear and pick up melodies quickly has so many advantages. So I suggest spending as much time as possible listening to some of the great melodeon players out there - as well as enjoying the challenges of learning to play a wonderful instrument. Have fun !

Oh I have been... funny thing? I NEVER listen to music. I like playing music, watching music live, but I'm not a fan of "canned" music. I don't know why. Only exception is listening to music I've seen live so when I listen to it later, it brings up the visual memory. So, I've been watching YouTube videos - it's a fuller experience for me. (perhaps I'm more visual than I thought). For the first month of thinking of this I watched tons of videos trying to sort out what I wanted to play, what I liked, etc.  Now, when I'm working (mostly on the computer), I have earphones on and I have lists of melodeon tunes playing in the background. Occasionally, I'll get curious and watch... Who knew I would EVER, ever want to listen and watch (diatonic) accordion?  :P ;D
Logged
Plunking on my 1st box: Vintage burl Hohner in GC,  a lonely Hohner Liliput in CF, and a borrowed Streb to have a "silent Melodeon" and a melodeon of many keys!

Melissa Sinclair

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 220
  • Got my first squeeze... box(es)
    • Melissa's Melodeons
Re: Now that I've got the melodeon(s) - where would YOU start?
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2017, 03:01:27 PM »

 Here is a random question, as I am sitting in my car on my way to work. I grabbed the CF box as I walked out the door, thinking I could practice for 10 or 15 minutes a couple of times a day while I take a computer break. But will that confuse me and mess me up with one being in the key of GC and the let me put in the key of CF? If I am just out of tunes by ear?

Since I am literally in the car. I don't have time to look it up.
Logged
Plunking on my 1st box: Vintage burl Hohner in GC,  a lonely Hohner Liliput in CF, and a borrowed Streb to have a "silent Melodeon" and a melodeon of many keys!

Steve C.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1377
  • Pokerwork DG lo, Tommy DG lo+acc, Streb #101
Re: Now that I've got the melodeon(s) - where would YOU start?
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2017, 03:42:00 PM »

Another suggestion, from a relative beginner, is to cruise the Tune of the Month Index and find a tune that becomes an earworm to you, one you just bond with; get it in your head, download the pdf and/or the midi and/or the mp3.
Definitely also get an ABC editor.
I mean, I love the MP books and the Mally book and other methods, but nothing better than getting inspired by members of the group turning out great tunes that you probably never even heard of before. IMHO.
Logged
Located in Central NC, USA; credit for picture: livingplanet.ca

george garside

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4122
Re: Now that I've got the melodeon(s) - where would YOU start?
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2017, 03:50:57 PM »

''When the saints go marching in'' is an easy one to  try by ear as it only needs 3 buttons  ( buttons 345 on the row assuming your instrument is a 3rd button start i.e the first note of the octave is on the 3rd button from chin end

george
Logged
author of DG tutor book "DG Melodeon a Crash Course for Beginners".    Available on ebay as a 'buy now' item. Put in melodeon tutor book for full info.

folkloristmark

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 121
    • street entertainers
Re: Now that I've got the melodeon(s) - where would YOU start?
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2017, 04:26:11 PM »

IMHO with the lilliput in the car just think of it as exactly the same as the hohner(I assume it is declubed if not make an exception for that button cross down to next row and along a bit for it) same buttons same direction  the only differance is thought it is being treated as a CG it really coming out in CF. Its the quick practice you need on the fly,you can hurt the brain in your down time.As you progress then if you want to ,you will start playing in the actual key and developing that ear with the CF. You will find patterns in the notes you have to reverse and  may be cross to that incidental row but really that comes in a few weeks time.The point of the lilly is its very portable you can play it on the bus.

I would say two skills are nice. On to reproduce music as is written gives you lots of control skills but the main point for many is the freedom to express styles and individualism on the instrument like a mouthorgan or guitar..... In this case its not as important to get the dots exact more important is that the bellows direction is right.Compare some of the controled french stuff with some crazy one row playing.Its only as in life when you start to mix with others the compromises need to begin.

Ear wigs have a look at Canal in Autumn and Abril Milladoiro
Logged
Mark Taylor
Folkloristmark

Melissa Sinclair

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 220
  • Got my first squeeze... box(es)
    • Melissa's Melodeons
Re: Now that I've got the melodeon(s) - where would YOU start?
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2017, 04:43:13 PM »

IMHO with the lilliput in the car just think of it as exactly the same as the hohner(I assume it is declubed if not make an exception for that button cross down to next row and along a bit for it) same buttons same direction  the only differance is thought it is being treated as a CG it really coming out in CF. Its the quick practice you need on the fly,you can hurt the brain in your down time.As you progress then if you want to ,you will start playing in the actual key and developing that ear with the CF. You will find patterns in the notes you have to reverse and  may be cross to that incidental row but really that comes in a few weeks time.The point of the lilly is its very portable you can play it on the bus.

I would say two skills are nice. On to reproduce music as is written gives you lots of control skills but the main point for many is the freedom to express styles and individualism on the instrument like a mouthorgan or guitar..... In this case its not as important to get the dots exact more important is that the bellows direction is right.Compare some of the controled french stuff with some crazy one row playing.Its only as in life when you start to mix with others the compromises need to begin.

Ear wigs have a look at Canal in Autumn and Abril Milladoiro

Play on the bus?  :o I might get punched or thunked on the head! ;D I don't live along a train/bus route, so I must drive in and do so off rush hours to make it a 35 trip versus 1 hour. I go to the office 4 days a week. One day there is NO down time/rest time (Sundays)... Mon, Tues, and Thurs. there is. work from home Friday... Wed. is day off (along with Saturday - usually)....

The Liliput is declubbed on the right hand, clubbed on the left... thinking what that means then for playing... as doesn't that then mean I lose half the notes/chords? haven't tested it out yet. I'll try to find a quiet room, removed from the rest of the office to practice a bit over a break...

And now to look up ABC Editor too. So much to learn! But learning new things keeps the brain nimble too - so it's not just a stress reliever but a brain exercise too!
Logged
Plunking on my 1st box: Vintage burl Hohner in GC,  a lonely Hohner Liliput in CF, and a borrowed Streb to have a "silent Melodeon" and a melodeon of many keys!
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
 


Melodeon.net - (c) Theo Gibb; Clive Williams 2010. The access and use of this website and forum featuring these terms and conditions constitutes your acceptance of these terms and conditions.